Ashley, welcome to Road Less Traveled, a recovery podcast. Our mission is to bring awareness to recovery and show that life and sobriety is not just possible, but can be very fulfilling. I'm Ashley woolver, Director of Outreach at Country Road Recovery Center, and I'm joined by my co host, Derek, talking to clinical director and La dc together, we'll be diving into conversations about addiction treatment and the journey to lasting recovery before we begin, we kindly ask that viewers refrain from commenting the names of current or past clients of country road Recovery Center to protect their privacy. A special thank you to Brooke Southern, who created the music for road less traveled. Thank you for tuning in. Let's get started on this journey down the road less traveled. All right. Welcome back to Road Less Traveled. Today, we're joined by Amy Jordan, a woman who has turned her own journey through recovery into a mission to help others. She's the founder of dare to be a nonprofit focused on saving lives through connection. And we'll get into what dare to be is all about in just a little bit. But first, we want to start by hearing some of your story. Would you feel comfortable sharing a little bit about your journey and what life looked like before you found recovery. I would love to thank you for having me today.
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A little bit about my journey.
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The main thing I can say is, as far back as I can remember, I felt like I didn't fit in. I felt like I was separate from the rest of the world, like everyone else were the cool people, or they knew something that I didn't know. And I felt like I was separate. And so by the time I was 12 years old, I found I was exposed to substances, and began finding relief whenever I would drink alcohol or use marijuana or things like that. And for some reason, when I reached for a drug or an alcohol, I felt like I fit in. I was relaxed, and I could interact with people, and I felt like kind of I was on a level playing field. And so that felt really good. So I just wanted to do more of it, and more of it and more of it. And so I did, but I was kind of high functioning, so I managed to get a bachelor's degree in psychology, and then I all through drinking and drugging, I would have brief periods of sobriety, but it was this big roller coaster, you know, and I even ended up getting a master's degree. I was a therapist for a while. Why I was using and then the kids started coming, and ended up having four kids. And it wasn't until I got arrested and felony drug charges and threw away my career, I threw away custody of my kids, and started with nothing once I was released from Oklahoma County Jail, and so that was the bottom that I hit when I became desperate enough to try something different. So that's a teeny bit about the background for me of what it was like before I found recovery, yeah, I didn't
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know that you went to school for psychology. This is fun to learn. I have to ask. What school was it? East Central University, me too. Or psychology. So you were arrested. This was kind of the turning point for you. What was that feeling like? Like? What? What went through your head when you realized I gotta make a change? Well, the first thought when I was sitting in the back of the cop car with my four year old son, and I was thinking, wow, this is going to be huge. And then I thought I could talk my way out of it, because I was a
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big wig at my job and, you know, but they weren't having it, you know. And but deep down in my soul, there was part of me that all leading up to that point. While I was still doing the work every day, I was getting the kids to school, every day, I was buying groceries, paying the bills, you know, high functioning I thought I was leading this successful double life, you know, that I was really proud of. But somehow I knew in my heart that my life was like this freight train that's going faster and faster and faster, and I knew it was going to crash, come off the tracks and and when it did, I was going to stop drinking and using so when I'm sitting in the back of that car, I was thinking, This is it. This is the freight train. It crashed. I'm going to have to make a change. And so anyway, that's, I don't know, being kind of high functioning. How was that
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emotionally for you through that time?
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Well, I think it was just it was okay. I think I was dissociated a lot, and really I was over. I was just obsessed with the next chance to drink, the next chance to use drugs, and going to work, taking care of the kids. Those were all just obligations that I had to do until I could go in the garage and get high, you know, in the first thing before work, first thing after work, sometimes in my car on lunch breaks, you know, like before bed. And so it was just I wanted to escape. I just wanted to escape. And looking back, even thinking right now, when I was 12 and I was uncomfortable in my own skin, I wanted to escape. I wanted to feel different. I wanted to feel like I fit in. And I think I did that all the way until I was 39 years old and got arrested. Yeah.
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And so after, you know, you got sober in those early days of recovery, what was that like for you? What were some of the hard things that you went through, and then some of the things that helped you get through that time? Yeah, well, one
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of the hardest things, and so when I, when I got sober and got out of jail, I didn't have custody of my kids, and I, you know, I turned my career away, my mug shot had been on the news, you know. And you know, it was, it was a lot, and it was hard to get a job, another job, but there was, there was this deep guilt inside of me because I was having four kids and being a single mom all those years, and the obligation of taking care of them. It's like I loved my kids, but I was a little bit relieved to not have to take care of them every day anymore, because they were living with their dad or my family, you know, my dad and his wife at the time, and so that was the biggest, heaviest guilt for me. I knew I wanted to stay sober, but the sense of relief, I felt so guilty for being relieved and the obligation of taking care of my kids, and it took me a lot of time to walk through that shame and be able to own that feeling and know that I needed to focus on recovery and getting well, and still had time with my kids. They would I would have supervised visitation at first, and then I worked it up to where they could come visit me on the weekends. And then, actually, you know, little by little, I wanted to be around them again, because the brokenness and the woundedness in my heart was beginning to heal as I clicked off each day sober. You know, it's not that I set out to want to spend time with my kids, but I was just broken, and I didn't know what to do. And so at five years sober, after a full blown trial, I wanted us to be back with my kids so and I wanted them. And I laid on the floor of my bedroom and cried. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. When I got the call for my attorney that I won custody back,
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yeah, and
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then the real work started, being sober and a full time mom. You know, it's learning how to balance.
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Yes,
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I always hear that. You know, when you're doing the work by yourself, sometimes that can be easier. And then when you add other people, and that's when things can start to, you know, show up and, yeah, sometimes get a little rocky. But what were, what was some of the things that helped you through that time, when I first got the kids back, one of the things that helped me was other women, so it was hard to figure out what to give up. So at first I gave up way too much of that, and thank God, I didn't use or anything, and I was focused on the kids, but that, you know, so learning how to find a balance. And it was the women that that I knew, that were also in recovery, that helped me to know what they had done when they were in my shoes. So I leaned on the women, and I just focused on stance over one day at a time and try to be the best of all my foods.
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The women are the best. Yeah, we really are, and I don't know what I would do without mine. And, you know, just in general, women or men like it is so important to have connections in society, because, you know, those are your people that you can lean on and they relate to you. You know, yeah, this episode is about holistic healing. And so I kind of wanted to talk about, what does that mean
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for you? Personally, yeah, holistic healing for me? Personally?
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Yes, you know, when I think of
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holistic I think of mind, body and spirit and me myself. I think we were talking before we started the camera today. But you know what, over the past few years, I think of the basics for me, simple things like nutrition, hydration, sleep, exercise, meditation, and so I look at all of those things today. I don't judge myself. I just try to be an observer of what I'm doing to take care of this human biological skin suit that I'm walking around. So, you know, nutrition, hydration, sleep, exercise, those are one thing, but then we go into the spirit portion of it. And so as I was sober over the years, my mind began to open up a little bit to more ideas from a spiritual concept, and then I learned about, you know, even a central nervous system, and learning about my own agency in regulating my own central nervous system. I never even realized that I was the one that was in charge of accessing the ill inner stillness that came inside me, and it was meditation that brought me that lady that I know I was looking for ways to learn how to meditate. And a lady pointed me to Insight Timer, a meditation timer, and she told me a couple that she really liked, and so I listened to that, and I began to explore. And then when I started finding out there's all these avenues to meditation that are teaching me ways to explore finding stillness within myself, which even also ended up leading to yoga. So I learned that I could find Union on the yoga mat, and it was like meditation, but it was this movement meditation. It wasn't just awesome. It was all the shapes or whatever it was, connecting my breath and finding just knowing what it feels like in my body and all of those things, little by little, started just kind of changing how I saw myself, and it helped me to begin to see myself through a lens of love and compassion, rather than The judgment and guilt that I had carried around
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even recovery. Yes. So when you were sharing some of your stories, said that you it was very difficult to be in your own skin. And then whenever you shared some of you know, the tools that you have today, you said it helps put you in your body. And so, how does that feel like being in your skin today with these tools?
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You know, it feels amazing
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just learning that. And so in yoga, we talk about, you
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know, we do a yoga practice, and you're on your mat, it's hot yoga. Whatever it is, it doesn't even matter. And you're trying to follow along with this flow and kind of getting lost. And then I would think, I can't keep up. This is too hard, you know? And finally it ends, and I get to lay on my mat, and shavasana at the end, and I'm thinking to myself, you should have done better. You should have Why didn't you blah, blah, blah, oh yeah, it was this or that shape that I couldn't remember in the sequence. So I beat myself up, and then I would lay on the
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mat, and I couldn't really
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find the stillness that I was looking for. But then I talked to a friend, same friend that taught me the Insight Timer, and she said, what's happening on the mat is often what's happening off the mat. So I was able to make this parallel. And I am circling back to answering your question. So I was able to make this parallel that, wow, when things get hard in life, I still beat myself up. I still say, why aren't you doing better? Amy, why aren't you? Why are you? You know, I've just questioned myself. And so when she did that, I was kind of mad at Earth, because I really wanted her to co sign on my frustration, she did, and she planted, yes, she planted these seeds. And I really I needed some time to digest that. But then I realized, so I'm in yoga, keep going, keep going, and I'm in yoga class, and I realized, well, I'm getting lost, but it's okay. And I learned that even when I'm stressed, even though I can't figure out what to do next, or I'm thinking, everyone notices that I'm not keeping up, even though they're not, nobody's paying any attention to me. But I learned that I can choose stillness on the mat, even when I'm a little bit lost, just like I can choose stillness off the mat in life, even whenever there's a little bit of dysregulation happening. So then I learn tools that can help me to go, Wow, this feels like dysregulation in my body. And I can take a really slow inhale and then even slower exhale, and envision the stillness that I can find in shavasana, that I can find in meditation. I can embody that anyone in traffic, in a hard conversation, while I'm waiting in line for a long time, whatever it is. So I think I took the long way around answering your question, but hopefully I actually,
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I love all of that. And so what was, was there kind of a point for you that, or you said, a lot of it was, you know, making friends with this person, and then just being kind of grandfathered into it. But was there a moment that you realized, like, I need to do more of things that helped me take care of myself? Yeah,
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well, once I tapped into it, I'm in recovery, and I have a disease of more that people talk about. And so, you know, even in recovery, I can have the more desire. So this meditation and all of these aspects, I just wanted more. I wanted to learn more about it. And so I'm the kind of person as I learn more, and, holy crap, this is like, I feel amazing. I can't wait to wake up in the morning. My eyes open and I'm excited about what the day is gonna every minute feels like, oh, it's exciting. And so, like, I just, I forgot your question. I think it was I did too, but I think it was if there was a moment in severity where you kind of like, I need some more tools. Yeah, too bad, yeah. And so I just wanted to learn more and more aspects. So, you know, Insight Timer, I you know, that was great. And I was still practicing all these different types of meditations, imagery meditations, stillness, meditations, pollen meditations, all different kinds of meditations. But then I was learning, mostly through social media, that there were women and events out there where people did things like breath work and cacao ceremonies and just embodiment exercises, sound baths and things like that. And so I kind of started making friends and getting to know people, people that I already had known for years, but I didn't know they were into that stuff. So this bigger network of people was happening. And at the same time, you know, I was, I was helping women in recovery for years and years and years, you know, trying to guide them. And they wanted to know how I did it, and I would share it with them, you know. But then I would meet women that were not in recovery, that were not struggling with addiction or anything like that, and they would say, there is some kind of grow about you, like I want to know what it is. I don't tell me what you do. So that's when I came to realize there's so many women, and not just women people, but specifically for me, working mostly with women, but that that are looking for connection
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that aren't alcoholics or addicts, you know. So of course, I wanted to teach and share the things that I had learned that helped me. So yes, and that's it kind of a good segue to start talking about dare to be. And so what we'll start with the name. What made you come up with the name? Yeah,
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so to rewind before dare to be was born, I started, started having these gatherings at my house because I wanted it was always for women. I think almost always, I would have a new moon ceremony or full moon ceremonies and raise together women so that you know that I could bring connection. And connection to me meant not just connection to each other. It meant connection to the self, connection to what it feels like somatically inside my body, which also meant connection to some type of source, an inner or an out, external resource, you know. But then it also means when, when those things start lining up and restoring I'm able to connect with other people better. So it's, you know, all these versions of connection, but I'm having all these events. And then I the short version of it is, I thought, man, there's a certain book that I love. Let me see if any of these women would want to go to a retreat in a beautiful cabin, you know. And we could read the book together and do things like nature walks and meditation together, whatever it is, like yummy food, you know, and just fellowship and connect. And he couldn't believe it, these women wanted to do it. So I started this retreat, and I think they were almost 20 of us the first year, maybe 18 or something like that the first year. And it actually went off, and it was amazing. So then some of the ladies after that said, Have you thought about turning this into a nonprofit? And so I thought, you know, and then an attorney friend of mine said, you might want to turn this into a nonprofit. You don't want someone to frame their ankle at your retreat. That's just a funny fact, like, oh, I never thought about that, you know. So there were a couple of key ladies and they, you know, we talked about we would just have these Think Tank conversations, because I was so passionate about it, and also a little paranoid about it, because I knew that I was extremely passionate, and I was afraid that my passion would like crowd or encumber them, you know. But some of these ladies really wanted to be involved. And as I was blabbing, blabbing, and they were blabbing, I said something about receiving lives for connection, and one of the girls says that's what we can call it. And so I decided to incorporate this little nonprofit. It's not a 501, c3, yet, but we're raising money to be able to do that part. It's incorporated as saving lives through connection. But then we realized that's a really long words, string of words. So then we did a think tank, and thought, dare to be is a good little tagline, you know, for it. So that's how it was born on December 12 of 2023, I think. And it's my mom's birthday. We passed away, yeah, and she died of suicide, and she did not have connection. She had a woundedness inside her. So I think there's a teeny part of me that kind of weaves in my mom's woundedness into my passion to hopefully be some type of a lighthouse of hope to people out
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there that are seeking connection too. Yes, no, that is such a full circle thing, and that's really beautiful. And so what does saving lives through connection look like put into practice now? Yeah, well,
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it looks like a lot of fundraising at this point. So the big event is our annual retreat. So, I mean, it's up to almost 30 women. It's, it's the it's, I think, the weekend before Labor Day in August, somewhere around there every year. So as we lead up to that, I have events, usually every about every month. But it's not like that, you know. But we have, we've had an event called fireside fusion, where sort of think of a Phoenix and rising from the ashes. It's about loving, reclaiming their wholeness, and letting go and forgiving themselves of the shame and the guilt of some of the choices they've made, or the woundedness that they're carrying. New Moon ceremonies, ceremonies. We did a self love soiree in February. So, you know, we're, you know, we're not anti romantic love, but we are pro self love, yes, and I love myself wholeheartedly. I can love you deeper and more authentically. And so we're really, you know, we all of the gatherings and events that we do are to like, inspire and support women as they journey toward wholeness and recognizing their own sovereignty. Yes,
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I love that. And so how has creating and learning there to be changed? You personally? Well,
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I have a passionate fire burning in me that like I have a job that pays my mortgage, and I go to that happily every day, and I meet the customers that I work with every day with, hopefully, love and compassion, but that's just something I do to earn money to pay my mortgage, my mission and my ministry is Derby, and when I wake up in the morning, it's time to work on it some more, and I'm excited. I can't wait to make make my coffee, and I open my laptop. I usually sit outside and enjoy the birds and the outside, and sometimes there's stillness, but it's an opportunity to create immersions for the women to come to to create different, creating, creating, creating, and creating a beautiful space for women to come and, learn to love themselves, and so when I'm showing after women, it just becomes an embodiment. And it's like walking through life. It is a is just a prayer. It's not asking for a Christmas list. It's just trying to embody love and compassion for myself and others in in things like washing the dishes and, you know, making making crowns for the women at the retreat, you know, yeah, so it, it's just changed me, Like, I don't know,
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with love and compassion.
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It's getting bigger and bigger. Yeah. So how can people support dare to be whether that's financially or, you know, just spreading the word?
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Yeah? Oh, well, they can. We have a little it's kind of new. It's sort of off the ground. But if there's an Instagram, it's D, A, R, E, and then the digit two, and then B, E and 1212, on Instagram. So I'm a one man show. Nobody gets paid for any of this, you know. So I don't like post every day or all the time, but I do put our events. We have a monthly yoga class, with somatic yoga that's combined with belly dancing. So that's for women only, and so we put the events that we have on the Instagram. There's also a Facebook account. And you know, we do take donations, because the retreat, the women that come to the retreat, they apply to attend, we do a readiness assessment to see if they're a good fit for the work that we do during this format retreat. Some women request a full or partial scholarship, and we have we do fundraising throughout the year, but we also have asked people. Some people have volunteered to just donate a whole registration for a woman. Other people have donated books. Other people have donated supplies for our retreat or door prizes for fundraising events, you know, stuff like that. So you know, even just sharing the word that we're a resource out there, that's if you want to learn new ways or explore ways to learn to love yourself, or, you know, women that not want to get to know us. Come on home,
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and I'll be sure to tag you guys in the comments on this episode too. I love that you guys provide scholarships for women, even, as you know, starting up it just shows your fire for it even more, yes, and so I have one more question for you. So if someone is listening and struggling right now, not just particularly with addiction, but maybe from feeling disconnected from themselves or other people, what would you say to them?
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They're not alone.
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There's help out there. You
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know,
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I want to say, reach out, message me on social media, and that
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I'm there's lots and lots of women out there that would be happy to talk with them, including me, and that would you know, if you're in the area, we can try to get you plugged in with not just our organization, but tons of other organizations, at least that I know of in the metro area that that is their ministry too, is to support people. Yes. So no,
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that's it. Absolutely I love it. Thank you so much for coming. I'm so glad that we got to make this happen. Thank you guys so much for listening and stay tuned for our next episode. You.