Hello and welcome to addiction truths brought to you by country road Recovery Center. I'm your host, Chris rosenbrin, in this podcast series, we delve deep into the profound impact of addiction on families. We share insights, experiences and advice on navigating this challenging journey before we begin a gentle reminder to our valued listeners, while we deeply appreciate your engagement and encourage you to reach out with questions, comments or concerns, please refrain from posting the names of family members who are currently in our program or who have been in the past. Your discretion helps us maintain the privacy and safety of all involved. We're here to offer support, answer questions and build a community of understanding and healing. So let's start the conversation and bring some truths about addiction into the life. Up everybody. Welcome to addiction truths podcast. My name is Pierce. I'll be your host this evening.
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I'm joined by Derek and April a April's going to be sharing a little bit of her story with us today. I want to thank everybody for joining us. Hopefully you can get something out of it. The idea behind addiction truths is to shed some light on what it's like for family members that are that have loved ones that are struggling with addiction, and April has a very unique story, April, somebody who has struggled with addiction herself. April has also lost a lot to addiction, but I think has gained more in the recovery from addiction.
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I'm excited to talk to you today about kind of your your walk with God. You know, before the podcast, you had mentioned that being something really, really close to you, really special to you, it's helped you with a lot of the healing.
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And yeah, let's keep going. Derek, how's your week been? Man, how's your month been? Really, they don't, we haven't talked to heck of a month, heck of a month. That's good.
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Everything's good, man, everything's good. I'm glad April's here. She's really nervous. I'm stoked about that. Yeah, my favorite thing to do is to make people more nervous. So that awkward tension, really grateful. Yeah, thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know why. Let me help you relax. We're just talking about life,
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right?
02:26
Thank you for having me, guys. I'm happy to be here. Yeah, I am nervous, but that's just me. It's just natural there. I mean, if it makes you feel any better, the average viewership is only like 17k
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probably only
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17, probably
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your mom, my mom,
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absolutely,
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I'm glad you had a good month, man, I had a really interesting month not to make it. You're a hurricane survivor. I am. I'm hurricane Pierce. I went. I was in Florida this last week, and
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I had no idea we were there for a work conference. I had no idea that there is a hurricane barreling towards Florida. I'm oblivious to this. I'm just looking forward to going to Magic Kingdom, and then the next day, like there's a hurricane, a category five hurricane headed your way. Wow, makes
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you feel better. It was downgraded to a three. Yeah, I was myself, publicly, everybody else, I have officially turned into an old man, because for the entire week, I was locked in to watching hurricane coverage on The Weather Channel. Yeah. And every time my wife would come in, she'd look at me and I'd be like, she's, she's been downgraded to a former
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middle Oklahoma locked into watching hurricane coverage. Yes, I guess we brought the tornadoes for this. Yeah? Because ahead of hurricane, that was the crisis. Yeah, that was crazy sport. I think they I think we experienced 130 tornado warnings. Wow. Florida, yeah, wow. You thought you were escaping tornado warnings. No, we're just getting started. Yeah, just getting started. Cool. Well, tell us a bit a little bit about your own personal struggle with addiction. I think that'd be a good place to start. Well, excuse me, how old were you when you when addiction really, like, settled in. So for me, addiction settled in, like, right away. I wasn't like, something that happened progressively. I was 14, the first time I used, and at 14 I was an addict.
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I mean, the things that I did progress, but I was instantly hooked. You know what I mean?
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And I've I went all in, you know? I mean, I started, of course, with like, marijuana and alcohol, but
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quickly was doing meth and hallucinogens, all the things. You know, I was IV user by 15.
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Years old, you know, wow. Yeah, that's a really young age to start Ivy. Yeah, yeah,
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I was all in, yeah.
05:13
So did you maybe, would it be helpful if we just ask questions? Yeah? Thank you,
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because I, like, even though we've worked together for a while, I don't know a ton of details about your story, right? So I'm excited to ask questions. Um, like, for you, I know you said that that progression happened really fast, like, I started using and within a year or two, I was all the way to IV drug use. How did your like, Introduction to drugs and alcohol happen, like, what was kind of the
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the baby steps into even alcohol and marijuana, if that question makes sense, okay, so I was really an addict for an alcoholic from birth, honestly, you know, like growing up, like,
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you know, I did all the things. I was in dance, I was a cheerleader, I was all these things, but, like, I always kind of felt like an imposter. That makes sense. It never felt like, Oh, this is what I'm this is where I'm going, you know.
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I think I've always had this little like dark seed inside me that was just like, waiting to, like, grow, you know. And I first went pot with a friend of mine, and I was like, this is the business, you know what I mean? And like, in school, I mean, I had a lot of friends, but I wouldn't say that I was popular by any means. And I always, kind of, I always went for the underdog. It was like, Whoever didn't have friends, that's who I wanted to be friends with. And in my school, which was like a very, you know, white school, you know, I would kind of hang out with the one person there that was probably breaking the rules, you know. And,
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and so
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from there, it was just kind of guys also, like, after I started using, then you start dating the bad guys, you know, and it's like, I'm gonna do with what the bad guys doing. And just progressed and progressed, you know, it's kind of where I first felt at home, though, like, you know, in that scene, I was like, Oh, these are, these are my people, you know, I've been, I've been waiting for you people my whole life, in a sense, you know,
07:19
I was just able to be myself. You know, I didn't feel like I had to meet anybody's standard. I guess maybe because the standard slower so far, yeah, I didn't feel like I had to keep trying, to keep trying. I was just like, I can relax. Now, you know, I certainly share that, yeah, with your story. Yeah, I relate with that a lot. Growing up for me, I was always
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was very shy, very concerned about what other people thought about me, but that particular group was very welcoming, yeah. And the standards, like you said, were very high, yeah,
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yeah. It's an easy fit, you know. And Did either of you have like, like, childhood backgrounds that you would call like, abnormal or abnormally traumatic, or Do, Do both of you feel like you grew up like fairly normal Oklahoma kids? Does that question make sense? Yeah, I had an amazing childhood. Yeah, okay, it was just me and my mother. Like at first, I did have a stepdad coming to the scene, but like me, my mom were so close. I'm an only child,
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excuse
08:28
me, but I was an only child. So I had, I just had that and the first grandchild. So I had, like, everybody's undivided attention and like, love, but I was really outgoing, and
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I don't they had so much hope for me. You know what I mean, there's like, all this pressure to be like this and be that, and it just it was, I guess, too much for me. You know what I mean, it just didn't like. It just never seemed like I said, I felt like an imposter. It just wasn't right for me. I didn't know my biological father, and even though I had this great life, like, not knowing him, like, especially coming into puberty, like, was had this really big impact on me, yeah, you know, because I felt like an imposter. I felt like I didn't know myself, like, I need to know this person, because, like, like, some, like, some level of identity crisis, absolutely, yeah, huge level of identity. What was yours, like my childhood? Yeah? Just briefly, it was really good, yeah, I had a really good childhood.
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I did grow up in a very typical alcoholic family,
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you know, so we played all the roles. I was a hero. My sister was the scapegoat. I had a sister, another third sister, she's a loner, dad, alcoholic.
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Mom, kind of the stereotypical, yeah, enabler, but that's all hindsight. You remember childhood being good? My childhood is amazing. Yeah, that's all hindsight. Looking back. I only ask that because I feel like a part of like, what families.
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Struggle with, at least when I talk to them, is feeling like they're abnormal, because they feel like home life has always been relatively stable, but that now they've got a young person who's out using and they think that that's an abnormal experience. And I don't necessarily think that that's abnormal. I think that there are a lot of people that begin drinking Korea, have alcohol and drug related problems, or become addicts or alcoholics who actually have a pretty stable home environment, like on the spectrum? Yeah, it's not just people who have terrible childhoods. No, not at all. No, yeah. My My childhood was a one, yeah,
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and I think that because I was the only one in my family that, I'm not saying that I didn't have family members that experimented with drugs in high school and things like that, but I, like I said, I went all in, and my family didn't know how to deal with that, you know. They were like, they'd never experienced that. They'd never seen it, you know. And so I think it made it really hard for them and knowing how to approach the situation, you know. But what are the things that your family did to try and mitigate Well, my mom, I love you, mom, okay, let me just say, I love you so much. But I think that she didn't want to believe it, you know, I was a really good manipulator as well, you know. And she, you know, she worked a lot, and she just, you know, I had all this potential, and she just really wanted to believe in that. And even though, like, the outward signs were definitely there, I feel like she was just hoping that maybe I'd grow out of it, or maybe it wasn't as bad as it was. I don't think she knew I was an IV user, you know, I would run away. I would just take on I think she would just be glad that I'd be home, if she would know where I was at, you know. And that was a win, in a sense, you know,
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sorry, I lost my train of
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thought. No, what did? What did all that do to your family relationships?
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Oh, man, it. I destroyed every relationship, you know, like my mom, like, like I said, she didn't know what to do. My aunt, who I'm really close to, I mean, she was just kind of tolerate me, you know, like they would let me, I feel like 14, we go on like, a family outing or something, and they'd make sure I had cigarettes or something, because I was, I just turned into this negative person, you know, I just remember, I was just angry. I had no reason to be angry, but I was so mad, and I was mad at them for whatever reasons. You know,
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I come from a really close family, and I just put distance between all of us. You know, by the end of my addiction, which was 20 plus years later, wow, I was completely isolated from all of them. You know, I might come to Christmas or so I might or might not come to a holiday function, you know, like towards the end, like I desperately wanted relationships with them,
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because I knew I was loved, you know, I knew I was loved, but it's really hard, you know, yeah, it's really hard to open those doors back up. And even though I knew they were there, they would always be welcoming to me. They would never turn me away. Yeah, no matter what I could, even if I was high, you know, they would. They were so loving. Are so loving, you know what I mean, when you were so when, when you were not 15 anymore, going on 2020s,
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you know, early 20s. Was there any kind of boundaries that your family would sit with you.
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Oh, yeah, I couldn't go live with my they wouldn't live and live with them, right? You know? I mean absolutely not. And my mom would still probably give me money if I came up with a really good story of why I needed it. But it wasn't like, yeah, no, they would help me get into treatment or something like that. Yeah, you know, I they'd still open their door to me if I wanted to come over and eat or something like that, they would, you know, they'd never get it was tough love. But it wasn't like, tough love, yeah, you know what? I mean, yeah. It was like, there was some balance of Yeah. It was like, I had burned the bridge. There was, you know, how old were you when you go super, 37
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Yeah? So you really were out for Was that your first attempt? Or did you have, like, kind of, I had one little sober stretch, and at the time, like, I didn't, I didn't really know about recovery. You know what I mean? I knew that there was, like, 12 step programs and things like that, and I had made it into the doors, but I was really young, and there was not, like, strong leadership in that environment. So I didn't, didn't like, grab hold of me,
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but I had had a child, and I I really wanted to get it right. It was my son, my third son, my third child, I mean. And I just had to get this one right, you know. And so I was able to get sober.
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But then, you know, it starts with a little drink here, a little drink there. And that was actually for several years, but it it didn't last because of alcohol, really, you know? Yeah, I didn't realize that alcohol was going to lead me back to addiction. You know what I mean? And I could drink for a little while, for a few.
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Years, I was like, oh, you know, I maintained that. But then one night of too much alcohol and I was gone for eight more years, you can always maintain it until, until you don't Yes, yeah. So when, when was your When did you have your first child? 17? When you were 17? Yeah, yeah. And I was able
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to get sober for that pregnancy. That was, like, the only time I could get sober, is why I was pregnant. You know what I mean? Because obviously, it was not just my life on the line. Yeah,
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yeah. I was 17 when I had my daughter, and
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God love her, you know, God love her. She didn't have she had lots of love. Don't get me wrong, you know, she was loved by every person, but she didn't have the mother that she deserved by any means at all. You know, I totally get that. Yeah, and my first son when I was 19, yeah, and I was still so,
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so bad off in my addiction. Yeah, I had my addiction. Hadn't even reached the pinnacle. Yeah, yeah. When I had my first time, I hadn't reached my pinnacle. Yeah, luckily, didn't go on for that much longer. But yeah, yeah, having a son, having a kiddo that young, it's hard, it's hard, hard question.
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Um, stay Wednesday. Might as well just go all in deep, deep talks midweek. Filming Wednesday. Yeah, she was on a Monday. Oh yeah, Monday. Then,
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for this is kind of a question for both of you, since she both shared having having children early in the in the midst of all the drug and alcohol problems you were having, how much of recovery has had to be related to shame about those experiences of young parenthood and even, like, the admission that, like, Hey, I wasn't the parent that that child deserved. Like, has there been additional shame that you've had to work through in recovery? So, like, that's what kept me in addiction for so long. You know what? I mean, it was like, just the shame of that, you know, I and I had must have so royally that, I mean, there was nothing I could do to, like, right those wrongs, you know,
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and just being away from your children and knowing that it's your fault, and just like the constant repeating of scenarios over and over in your head. It's like, you just want to push that back. You just want to, you just got to let that go somewhere else, you know. And it's just was too much, you know, especially like my daughter, like,
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I always love my daughter. And there would be, like, long periods of time where I'd be away from her, and I would write letters, and I would like, I just, it was just such an emotional thing, but for whatever reasons, I couldn't get it. I just could not get it, you know, like in my early 20s, I went off on this I was going to find my biological father, like I had finally met him, like my younger teenage years, but whatever happened, and we were out of contact, and I went to find my dad, you know, and I thought that was going to be the answer to all my problems, which it wasn't. He rejected me, and it just made things worse. Made things worse. And instead of like coming home and being a good mom, I just, it's like trying to escape me, you know. And just kept digging the hole deeper and deeper, you know. And it just and it was sad, because it was like history repeating itself, like I didn't know my dad, and here's now I have this young daughter, yeah becoming the thing that Yeah,
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and that's like, just Yeah,
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heartbreaking. You're building. You're building on this idea that I often see in the in the recovery community. Be mistreated
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by somebody that's looking in in that addiction versus the one that's struggling with addiction, looking out Yeah, is we as people have struggled with addiction,
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we can see that our actions are affecting other people. Yeah, and it's and it affects us, yeah, it really does affect us, yes, and, and oftentimes, what I tell the people that that I'm working with is is like, yeah, you know, I'm just, I've just got to get sober and and all these problems will be solved. I just got to get sober. And my response to that is, usually, unfortunately, don't realize how much stronger addiction is, yeah, than your wants and your needs. Yeah, it's so much stronger than your once in your needs. And unfortunately, somebody looking in on addiction is going to say, well, they're just so selfish that they can't see it. Yeah, they're affecting it, yeah? And, you know, at times, I'd be willing to agree that there was, there were periods of my in my addiction, where I was so selfish that I could not see how my behavior was affecting others. But every once in a while, I look up and go, Oh, wow, this sucks. Yeah, for everybody that's involved, yeah, like that was, like, definitely when I first started using drugs. Like it was selfishness, like I was so selfish once you bring children.
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It into the picture it, you know? I mean, obviously selfishness is still there, but it's like, it's the guilt and the shame, and you see how it affects them. You know what? I mean, like, yeah, and it's still isn't enough, isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's, that's what was it for you that finally, like, tipped the scale and got you, like, into long term recovery and sobriety. So, I mean, I'd had the desire. And that's what I always tell people coming in, like, you've had the desire, you know, that's a huge percentage of it is that you have to have a desire. But for me, I had, I had burned all the bridges, you know, I had cut myself off from everyone who loved me, and I was going to prison. I mean, that's what that the outcome was. And like, I had wanted, like, somehow, in my addiction, I stumbled upon God, my father, like he came to me and like, I realized, like I was so loved. And like, you know, even though I didn't love myself, that God loved me and like that just gave me, like this, hope, like, okay, like, there can, I can find a purpose in this. There is a purpose. Because God created me on purpose, you know what I mean? And
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so it was like I was going to prison in my mind, like it really was set, the COVID changed the course of my life forever. Thanks, COVID. Yeah, thank you, COVID. That's right. Pandemic was an all bath. No, I'm out of prison. That's right. But you know what it was like? Is this a mental prison or this actual physical prison? Physical prison? Yeah, I was going for 10 years violent time. You know what I mean? Yeah, and, and
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there was, like, this long period of time building up to that. So I'm going through all these mental and emotional like, acceptance and all these things, trying to get ready for this long prison sentence, you know. But, um, so I found God and, like, I just kept in communion with Him, and I was like, God, you know what? Please just be a part of this, like, just give purpose to this experience, you know, please. I was just so desperate for love, you know, even though I knew I were you content go, I mean, you it sounds like that you were content with that outcome. I actually had found peace in it. Yeah. So I by the grace of God, I had because I knew that God works through all things. You know, that's something that I had learned, that God is going to work through this experience, even though it's not what I want, it's obviously what I need. And if it's not what I need, it's what God needs to to work, you know, for His glory, you know, and like with that, I did find peace, it's with knowing God and knowing that he his plans are perfect and that he works through all things I've been able to find peace with almost every like tragic situation, without God, I would not have peace at all. Yeah, you know, in my life, I wouldn't be sober today. I would have never made it into a you know, it's a big part of my healing journey. It has been, is recognizing that, yeah, recognizing that,
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that it's and I think what it did it for me, was my relationship with God was non existent for a long time, to a degree where I would consider myself an atheist, or I just had nothing was I knew nothing was there.
23:16
Well, God has a funny way of approaching us. It sounds like the, I don't know what kind of like moment that you have, but it sounds like it was a quick, sudden moment. It was like, Yeah, mine grew over time. It took time for it to grow. And one of the examples that I fell back on one day I just really drilled it home was the my the worst thing that that's that I've ever gone through my life, addiction is now one of the most useful things that I have in my life today. And I get to I get to reach people that I would not have ever been able to reach. I get to do things that I would not have ever been able to do if it had not been for that tragic time. So now I know looking back on those, on this, on these moments in my life that I, that I considered at the time horrible, yeah, and they were, they were bad. There was enough. I mean, really hard to go through. But now look, you know, I get to say, like, this is all for that's, this is why I would do that. Yeah, I can see that now, yeah, hindsight, but that that really helped me develop a relationship with a God of my understanding, yeah, like, for me, like, I'm, I am really grateful for my addiction, because I got the beautiful gift of desperation, you know? I mean, it broke me down so hard that I had to learn to rely on God, to call on God, to trust on him, to allow him to come and sort out my problems. Because I always had these grand ideas, like, Oh, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. And like, you know, I'm gonna get there. Yeah, never happened, you know what I mean, and it wasn't so I was so broken and so desperate, going to prison, not gonna see my children, you know what I mean, after all, not seeing them for all this time anyway, you know, like
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that, I was able to really just give.
25:00
It all to God. Surrender. That's what we talk about, surrender, you know. And like, what a beautiful gift, you know. And now I can practice that, you know. I heard my all my life. Give it to God. You gotta give it to God. How the heck do you do that? You know what I mean? Like, I could not figure that out. Like I could not
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like, Oh,
25:22
you
25:24
Oh, it's a hard that's hard to be able to tell somebody how to do it, like when my daughter was, you know, wanting asking me, How do I have a relationship with God? I, you know what I just told her, like, you include him in everything. You know what I mean? Like you just stay put and say, don't cease praying, like, all day long, like it's, I'm in conversation with God, you know what I mean. And like to give it to him. I don't know how you actually, I did it, but now that I've done it, I can do it in every situation. Like I'm a little bit of control freak. So, you know, I might be trying to micromanage things, but I can usually finally, you know, see that, and then step back and say, Okay, God. Like, you know, I know what I'm doing. Please take over again. And, I mean, he won't let you down. He's never failed me. You know what? I mean, even the loss of my daughter like that was painful, and that hurt and, like, couldn't believe it, because I truly thought we had the rest of our lives. I mean, that's one thing. Like, I was like, I'm gonna get sober and we're gonna, we're gonna have a relationship forever, you know, because she was finally 18, custody stuff, all these things, you know, put distance between us. But,
26:27
you know, we were finally at that point, you know, and
26:32
I was sober for one year, and and she died, you know what I mean, yeah, and,
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dang, I lost my train of thought again, was it was that a hard place to stay sober in? Like, so surprisingly, no, okay, yeah, no, okay, because it could have gone either way. Thank you. Yeah, and like, that's what a lot of people say, like, I would have never stayed sober through that. But you know what, I never thought about using, you know, I swear it's like in that moment of surrender when I really, truly gave my life to God, like, I didn't get like sober immediately, you know, that wasn't like that, um,
27:05
but I did eventually, because I was allowing him to show up in my life, and I wanted that relationship with him so badly. And once i i Really i was able to get sober even in that situation like nothing could deter me from wanting that closeness to God, wanting to be the person that I knew he had intended me to be, you know, and that was such a gift. I mean, I don't know how it stays ever through that. I mean, most people would, wouldn't have, you know, but I did, and it's just because I knew that he was working through that situation, and I wouldn't allow myself to think any other way, you know, like, I just know God is here. He is present, and he's working through this, and everything is going to be okay. You know, it's interesting to me that you guys have some similar, some, like similar parts of your story, but then parts of your story that happened really different. And I think it's important for people to realize that, like, everybody's story can be different, and that that's okay, but particularly, it sounds like you found
28:06
faith and a relationship with God or a higher power prior to sobriety, yes, and it sounds like you found it after sobriety. And I think that that's really interesting, and because, I mean, the program talks a lot about spiritual experience and spiritual experience and spiritual awakening and all of these things. And sometimes I feel like clients get pigeonholed into thinking that the spiritual experience or spiritual awakening is this way and that there's not multiple different ways that that happens and kind of comes alive for people. And to hear two people who have both had that, but in very different ways and at different on a different timeline, I think is really refreshing for some people. Yeah, yeah. Great, April, if you don't mind me digging into a little bit more about your daughter.
28:56
For all of our listeners, I know, I know some. I know a lot of the details about it, just from our conversations. But
29:05
what happened? I know that. I know that
29:09
your daughter's struggle with addiction was short, it wasn't that long, and that you guys had tried to get her into treatment, and that wasn't so my daughter, I mean, from what I know, because she was also a very good manipulator as well.
29:26
She was so much like me in all the great ways and unfortunately and in those ways, you know, but she'd only really been experimenting, experimenting, excuse me, with drugs for like, a year, you know, maybe a little marijuana in high school type thing, but nothing beyond that. You know,
29:46
I think also for her, like relationships was kind of her downfall, you know what I mean, like being with someone who is doing, you know, these drugs, it kind of led to her doing them as particular relationships with men. Is that what you mean, relationship, romantic relationship.
30:00
Chips, okay, yeah, yeah.
30:02
But, uh,
30:04
like, I could tell something was a miss, you know what I mean, like I was sitting in county jail and like, Would you be having these conversations with her because I was going to prison, you know what I mean? So and I just, I could tell, like I would get these letters that were, like, seemed super manic, you know what I mean, but I knew what that was. I knew what it was, you know. And I would tell her, like,
30:26
and she would kind of deny it, or, then sometimes she'd admit it, but it was just, I like, okay, she's just experimenting. Like she's gonna, we're gonna get through this, you know what? I mean, like, she's not gonna pull it over on me, that's for sure, you know. But then street wise, yeah? But after I had, I was finally back in, you know, society, and I was so overworking my program, or whatever. How long have you been sober at this point? A year, a year, about a year. Yeah,
30:51
excuse me. She had come to me and she was like, look at things are out of control. You know what I'm saying? Like I she was in tears, and like, she had, like, lost a job, like, working on this other job, and she was it just wasn't working out for her, and she wanted help, you know what I mean? And I was like, Okay, we're going to get you help. You know, instantly that day got her into a treatment. You know, in Houston is where she ended up going.
31:19
She was doing really good there, you know,
31:23
she did have some mental health issues, you know, like in the past, rightfully so. And like, she had been, like, I kind of in a mental institution before, but this was different. This was like, you know, getting to, like, some core things, not just balancing out your bed type thing, you know. And she was doing really good. I got to go down there. Actually was in Texas for whatever reasons, and got to see her on Christmas Day, and she was about to be getting out, and she agreed that she would go to sober living. Got her in sober living.
31:55
She was there for eight days.
31:59
Six. Just took one pill. She split one pill with two other people. They had been using, I think off and on a little bit, you know, as they were also in silver living.
32:09
But that one pill took her life, you know what I mean? So it was her first fentanyl. Yeah, she thought it was a Percocet,
32:18
but it was fentanyl. And so, you know, that's why I always tell people like your next time, it most likely will be your last time, if you're doing fentanyl. Yeah, please. You don't you know your next time will probably be your last time? Yeah, and it's just like heartbreaking, because she was so young and so beautiful and old, is she? I buried her on her 21st birthday, so she was 20 years old,
32:43
yeah, yeah, yeah,
32:46
yeah, that's that's tough when, when she
32:50
was going through that addiction.
32:53
Were there any times where,
32:57
gosh, were there any times where you, you know,
33:03
I lost the question I was going to ask.
33:06
It's gone.
33:08
Were there any times where you were able to set like some some goals and some boundaries for yourself to keep kind of like yourself from getting too involved in her addiction?
33:19
That's kind of hard like, so for me,
33:23
I mean, she wouldn't really allow me to, like, get really involved my she would, she would deny, deny, deny. But, like, I knew it was just one of those things, like, I just put all my trust into God and God's plans for her, you know what? I mean, like,
33:38
I was just super available for her, you know, but I knew from my own experience of isolation and denial, like, I didn't want her to isolate, you know, if she would, you know, there would be like, times I wouldn't talk to her, or like, you know, she just tell me whatever she thought I wanted To hear for the phone conversation, but,
34:01
but just trust in God and not try to take control of the situation, not force it on to hurt, you know, just know that, hey, I'm here for you whenever you need me, and just stand by that. You know what I mean, yeah, after she passed away, when did the healing process start from what you're from what you've been, you know, like how you've been describing your story up to this point. It really,
34:27
it really sounds almost like the healing process started
34:31
when you, when you really begin to develop the relationship with God. And the healing process really began before, but, but I so like, my healing process, like aside, just like, from life, from like, addiction, like it started that day when God spoke to me, like that day, instantly I knew that I was loved, even though I like I said, I know that my family loved me, but I didn't feel worthy. Okay, that was my main issue in life, because I did not feel worthy.
35:00
Of like their love. I did not feel worthy of God's love, and like he just spoke to me, like, so clearly, you know, it was like, it's just this undeniable, knowing that, like, I was loved by my Creator, as Creator of all things. And instantly my my healing started, because I was in a really dark place. In that moment, I had was broken down. My biological father had rejected me yet again, and I was, like, 33 years old at this point. Like I said, I didn't get sober instantly, okay, yeah. But the healing of, like, just that rejection that I felt for whatever reason, self inflicted, really, you know, I instantly started to heal, and I was full of joy, like in that moment, and like nothing was gonna take it, you know what? I mean, it took me, like I was so deeply wrapped up in drugs and the that whole process that it did take me time to get sober, to figure out how to get out of this four years. In fact, I couldn't figure it out. That's why I ended up in jail, going to prison, you know. But through that surrender, God just give purpose to my time, you know. And I meant it wholeheartedly. He rerouted my whole life, you know. Here I am. I'm not in prison. I wouldn't I'd barely be halfway through with my prison sentence, you know. And instead, I'm here getting to help other people, you know, find their way. And it's like, such a gift, like, as far as healing from the loss of my daughter.
36:27
So I, I did have peace. Like there was other people in my family that are still struggling to find the peace from her loss, you know what I mean? And I, I just, like, for me, I eliminate that an option for anything else I just, I just won't allow to, like, believe, to allow myself to get caught up in thinking about how,
36:49
because it's painful, there's no way around that, like, there's, like, there's, there's no way around that. And maybe sometimes, like, I avoid like, the emotion, and I try to convince myself that, like, I'm okay, but, but at the end of the day, the whatever I'm telling myself is the truth. It's my truth. God is going to work through this. You know? These are God's perfect plans. And like, I it carries me through. I'm not going to say that I don't have days that, like, I get overwhelmed sometimes, like
37:17
the emotion that hits me like a brick wall, and I can't shut it off, you know. And thank God, I work with wonderful people who are really understanding and, you know, have that will align with the space that I need to like get through that moment, you know. But
37:32
I'm just not going to give up on knowing that God's smarter than me.
37:41
A lot of people also think too, that we're locked in to, like, only experiencing one thing emotionally with the same event. Like we're locked in, and maybe that's, I don't know, I've never met your family or talk to them, but I can imagine that, like, that's the place where they're stuck, is they're like, I feel grief and I feel loss and I feel pain, and they've convinced themselves, therefore I can't feel joy peace or joy or gratitude. And I think one thing that we have to reteach people, Hey, it's okay to feel sad and grateful at the exact same moment in the exact same circumstances that we're not locked in good yeah? Like, emotions aren't
38:26
almost said something that maybe got me in trouble. Emotions are not a binary experience, right, right? Like, we can have lots of them at the same time that even feel conflicting, yeah, and that's okay, yeah? Well, like it so, like when my daughter passed too, like I was actually just kind of coming alive, like I had been living this life of death for so long, you know. And even though, like I had finally had this relationship with God, like I still was isolating, I'm still using, I'm still going in and out of jails, all these things and like my life was like I was finally alive, you know. And like, living for a purpose. And like, you know, it was like,
39:07
I don't know God's timing is, is just so it's, it's a beautiful thing, even though, like, I thought we had forever together for whatever reason, that's the time that God chose, and I was able to just keep going on, like, if it wasn't for AA, and like, my AA family, that's where I went instantly, like, the day that I found, you know, about that news, I went to them, and they just, like, embraced me and loved me, like, even though they didn't know what I was going through a movie, they did it didn't matter. Like, it was just like, this love and support that I knew was there and and I had my family, I just had all these things I hadn't had, you know, in so long. And I was just surrounded by love, and God was very is very present, you know. But my life was just starting at 38 I was 38 at this point, you know,
39:56
I don't know. So, you had a fellowship. I had a fellowship around, yeah.
40:00
That's huge. Yeah, it was huge. There's really nothing that I go through my day to day life, the big things, the the good things, the bad things, hard things. There's nothing that I don't involve it, right? You know? Yeah, that's a really special thing. Yeah, going through a lot of these, going through,
40:19
going through what you've been through alone would be, I mean, infinitely harder, yeah, than it would be if you happen to have found that fellowship, yeah? And that's something that our families that are listening, whether it be somebody that's struggling with addiction or has someone struggling with addiction, there's fellowships for all of us, yeah, there, that's right, you know, that's right. There's 12 step fellowship programs for all of us. There's, yeah, faith based fellowships for for all of us, yeah.
40:53
And so it's like, this is addiction is one of those things, and it's much harder to go through if you're by yourself, yeah, yeah. You know, on both sides of the spectrum, yes, like, this is kind of, I mean, like, for me,
41:09
this about getting sober, like, I had family that supported me, you know what I mean? And so many people, I see them that they're, they are alone, and they don't have that kind of support. And, like, I can't, I don't know that I could have got sober. I I mean, God, can do all things, but if I would have been able to get sober as easily as I did when I did, if I didn't have, like, if I wasn't surrounded by my family supported me and taking me to the outpatient to taking me to all the things that I had to do, to the meetings and whatnot, because I didn't have a license, I didn't have any, I didn't have a hallway to have any. And they, for whatever reason, gave me that opportunity, you know, and, and it was just amazing, like, I really, I could not have done it without that support system. And so, I don't know, it's just, it's hard when you see people you're all alone, you know, yeah, don't have that. It's like, oh man, you know. And I,
42:02
you
42:04
know, so family is everything supports some of that. Being fellowship is everything. Like, if you don't have a family, get involved in 12 step, like, you're going to have the family that you need, you know? Yeah, that's a good point, because family always doesn't mean like, biologically related group, right? That's right, there's a lot of families that are like fictive kin. It's like, this is my family, because I have never had one, and a lot of people find that in the fellowship
42:30
12 step program, church or faith community. Yeah, I have a family that I love very much, and we have great relationships. I just spent yesterday, all day with my dad, and this is where him and I, like, we can't stop talking to each other, like we literally would just talk forever about all the things. And the same way with my mom. You know, my mom's at home right now, watching, watching the baby, and so the fellow, my family, and the fellowship we have is is so crucial in my life. But in addition to that, they, they don't necessarily know all the things that I've gone through, yeah, absolutely. But my other my my other family, my secondary family, right there, that's that family is full of folks that have gone through exactly what I have. Yeah, you know, we share a common experience in that way, yeah. And oftentimes, we, we often share a common solution to that right, addiction and all that other stuff. And so that's that's another component to it that's so important, is, is yes, that that fellowship is there to support you in the hard times, the good, the bad. But they understand, they understand something about they understand you in a way that you don't even have to say, you don't even have to talk about right? And they know deep down that their comments, their common problem is your common problem, their common solution is also your common solution, and that just goes without being said, Yeah, and that that level of connection is is so important to heal. It's so important to grow. I don't know where I'd be without it. Yeah, you know, that's like, one of the things about getting to work in recovery is that we all have like, like, thinking minds, you know what I mean, and we all have that same common solution. And so you're, like, surrounded by people on a daily basis that that you can relate with, you know, and that you like, you have the same goal stays over for today, and
44:22
that's a really huge part of my recovery as well. You know, I'm very blessed. Yeah, you're the TA supervisor here at country road. I am. Yeah, did you? Did you start as a tech? I started as a tech, yeah, I also started as a tech year. Did you start as a tech? I did not start as a tech
44:41
year. Sure did. No, you sure didn't. Yeah, you, you get to, like, put use to your story every day. Yeah, that's one of the, that's one of the beautiful things about, like, coming through the other side and just like we're talking about common common solutions and common problems. I think that I.
45:00
Um, my struggle with addiction and my family's struggle with watching me go through addiction is very similar. We often struggle with a lot of the same big feelings, a lot of the same common problems. I know Derek can probably speak a little bit more in depth about what, what you know, just the common problems that we share. But when,
45:22
oh gosh, now I lost my train. Thought through Derek, you guys haven't had enough coffee, man, I guess not. I guess not, or too much. That can also be the issue here. Can I just I? Can I just change this every cruise? Okay, so getting to work here is like the greatest joy, because, like, God answered my my prayer, because not only to give me a purpose for today, but he gave so much purpose to my past, because now I get to apply my past every single day to trying to help other people. And like, that's just such an amazing gift to me, you know, because there was so much of a past because I wasn't out here for 20 plus years. And like, there's so many things that I've gained from that experience that I get to use to help the next person. And it's like it's such a gift, you know, because there's so much life wasted, but now I get to see it, you know, full circle, and help somebody else. Just enjoy. Just want to say that, yeah,
46:19
was it really wasted, right?
46:22
Yeah,
46:25
that's timing, yeah, yeah,
46:28
you
46:31
guys are both looking at me like, I'm supposed to say something else. I'm hoping that you come out with something
46:38
profound.
46:39
I don't know if I've got anything profound.
46:45
I think it's really cool when people's stories come full circle, though,
46:50
for both you guys,
46:52
to a place where, and I think that doesn't just happen with addicts alcoholics, that happens with lots of people who have stories that are full of pain or suffering, or, you know, life's been a little bit of a roller coaster, or a really good novel or a really good movie, like most people's stories have ups and downs and curves and everything else. And to see like resolution to the problematic parts of people's stories, and then to see them be able to use their stories to help shape other people's stories. I just think
47:28
it's really cool. It's an unintended consequence of my addiction. That's what that was. It's an unintended consequence of my struggle, yeah, or to help somebody else. I didn't see that coming.
47:39
I came out of nowhere, for sure, I came out of nowhere. I remember, I kind of remember what I was saying before I lost my train of thought,
47:48
because in my addiction, I struggled with a lot of shame. I struggled with a lot of guilt. I struggled with a lot of
47:55
if I had only done this different. I struggled with a lot of
48:00
fear, fear of the future, fear of the unknown. I don't know what's going to happen next. Anger. Why? Why me? Why now? Why can't I change
48:13
and if I, even if I were a betting man, which I'm no gambler,
48:22
yeah? No, no, yeah. Well, my I'd be willing to bet you that my mom would say the same things.
48:28
She'd say the same thing. She struggled with the same kind of shame, the same kind of regret, the same kind of fear, anger, and, you know, everything that we've been talking about with our struggles with our struggles with addiction, I know if you, if you take out the word addiction and replace it with the name of a loved one, it's the same story. It's typically the same story and and oftentimes the solution is a lot of the same thing. It was,
49:01
you know, just because I got, just because I got, if my problem was getting sober, then that problem was resolved as soon as I walked into a treatment center, or as soon as I put down the drugs and alcohol for more than, you know, 24 hours. But unfortunately, that's not that doesn't solve the problem, right? And it's the same for our loved ones. Just because I got sober, that doesn't solve my mom's problem. She's still going to struggle with a lot of the same feelings, and it's not going to go away. She's still going to struggle with the same worry. And I'm I'm speaking for you, mom. I hope you don't mind her, and I have had long, extensive conversations about this and what it and what that's looked like for her and her life, and we know today that just because I got sober didn't solve her problem, you know, she still struggled with a lot of those things. It typically takes time. It typically takes connecting with a power that's greater than yourself, like a fellowship or a church organization or whatever, whatever.
50:00
The case,
50:02
I hear a lot of similarities well, as we're, as we're talking about this, just in just, you know, now that I'm a lot more clear headed, and I have a little bit of time under my belt, I can see from a different point of angle than just my own selfish view, yeah, how I affected my my mom, but, yeah, it's an interesting thought to think about.
50:27
I concur.
50:29
Are you putting the clinical stamp of approval? Well, I mean, I think what you said is true of everybody on the planet,
50:38
and I think there is something
50:41
maybe particularly unique about people who have struggled with some sort of addiction or alcoholism
50:48
because of the compulsiveness of the behavior. But I don't think there's, there's anything unique about the emotional experience of addiction or alcoholism. I think that that's the same emotional experience that every unhealthy person on the planet is bad because it's it's full of shame and it's full of isolation and everything else. Which is why, for somebody that's like doesn't have a background of being addicted to anything, to be so embedded in recovery work for so many years and to see how much useful principles and beneficial things there are that happen in the recovery that I'm like, man, if everybody on the planet did this stuff, the world would be a better place. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that's because good recovery work, and good 12 step work is digging underneath the alcohol or the drug to resolve court issues of right, shame and these other things and that stuff that everybody deals with, yeah, right? Like,
51:51
everybody has a common experience of feeling ashamed about something they've done, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what. We're kind of lucky because we've got to to a point where we got the help, you know, because life is still hard, life is still happening. There's Everybody has issues. Nobody just has, like, this perfect life. You know what? I mean? Oh, Derek's life seems pretty perfect, but,
52:14
yeah, but like, we have learned coping mechanisms. We have worked the 12 steps. We've done these things, you know, we've gotten to grow and realize that like, you know, work on those core issues, like you said, where there's people struggling with
52:30
all, all sorts of things and don't know where to begin. Even, you know, are so overwhelmed by it that they just don't know where to start. You know,
52:40
it's good stuff. I want to
52:44
Special shout out for you. Thank you for coming on to this podcast. Thank you for making it so comfortable. Because I was really nervous. I was nervous too. I'm nervous every time I do anything for a public audience, right? But you just get in there and you do it, hopefully somebody gets in and out of it, right? That's the goal. Is hopefully. There's this podcast, this art you sharing your story, of sharing our stories, it reaches somebody in a special way that they wouldn't have been able to otherwise hear it, yeah? Because it's coming from somebody that has experienced it, and that's, that's all we can hope for, right? Yeah, using our experience to help other people. If you guys have any questions, comments,
53:25
concerns for April, whatever the whatever share in our comment section, and we'll get back to you with a question or another comment, maybe a concern that we have for you. I don't know now, I'm just making stuff up. Thanks for joining in on addiction truths this month, and we look forward to seeing you next time bye, bye.