Ashley, welcome to Road Less Traveled, a recovery podcast. Our mission is to bring awareness to recovery and show that life and sobriety is not just possible, but can be very fulfilling. I'm Ashley woolver, Director of Outreach at Country Road Recovery Center, and I'm joined by my co host, Derek, talking to clinical director and La dc together, we'll be diving into conversations about addiction treatment and the journey to lasting recovery before we begin, we kindly ask that viewers refrain from commenting the names of current or past clients of country road Recovery Center to protect their privacy. A special thank you to Brooke Southern, who created the music for road less traveled. Thank you for tuning in. Let's get started on this journey down the road less traveled.
01:15
Everybody. Welcome back to Road Less Traveled. As you know, I am your host, Ashley, Director of Outreach at Country Road Recovery Center, and today we have a very special guest, Michael Perrin, Hey, Michael, how are you doing today? I'm good. How are you good? We're going to be discussing an important topic today. We're going to be talking about relationships in recovery and what that looks like rebuilding some of those relationships with family and finding new healthy relationships as well. All right, so Michael, do you want to share a little bit about your role at country roads and what you do
01:50
here? Yes, so my job title is continuing care coordinator. So what that looks like is really when I'll be there, and I'll meet you at the door when you walk in. We'll take you in, get you admitted with us. I'll show you around the facility, and then, pretty much from then on, for the rest of the 60 days, I'll kind of be like the middleman between you and the outside world, you know, you know, helping you navigate maybe any other obligations you might have while you're in treatment, and addressing those and helping you take care of them. And then, you know, the closer you get to graduation, we'll sit down with my coworker and we'll come up with a care plan, you know, kind of consisting of, where are you going afterwards, like, what's what's that going to look like? And just getting you set up with various outpatient kind of appointments, just to make sure that you know you're taken care of.
02:47
That's awesome. I feel like your role is so key to someone new in sobriety, because I remember what it was like walking through the doors and it being hard to just pick up the phone and call somebody and you really help a lot making that easier for people. What would you say your favorite part of your job is?
03:09
My favorite part of the job is seeing, seeing people when they walk in that door where they're at, you know, in just seeing the light kind of come back on in their eyes, seeing them start to laugh again, or feel like they can just kind of relax at country roads and they don't have to be on guard. 24/7 and and seeing the friendships that that can blossom as a result of being here with their peers, it's it's always a joy to watch.
03:42
That's amazing. So what led you to country roads? Do you want to share a little bit about your story and how you got to where you are now? Sure,
03:52
yeah, so nothing crazy. I mean, I grew up in Edmond, Oklahoma. I have two amazing parents, have a younger brother, you know, in Yeah, it was, it was like the most ideal family situation that you could have imagined. You know, there's no really external kind of factors that would have led me down the way I went. Really, it was all just internal. You know, I think you'll hear this a lot in recovery, but I feel like everyone knew kind of the answer to life, and I'm still trying to figure out the question. I never got that quote, unquote guidebook, if you will. So I was just an awkward kid growing up. I was, I had few friends, you know, I never felt comfortable my skin or anything, but what I did learn to do over time as a result of that is kind of like become a chameleon. You know, how can I identify with this group of people that is accepting me at the time? And, you know, I'm going to take that to the full extent. I'm going to go out, get the get the full gear, whatever it may be. And that's what it was for the longest time, you know, I, I remember, it was about sixth grade, and I found these, these group of kids that like skateboard. And so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna be like, the next Tony Hawk. And I went out and I got the board, I got the Get up, you know, the full nine yards, and I'd start hanging out with them. But a part of that, what it looked like is they just loved to party a lot, and so I started to love the party a lot, you know. And, you know, it all started out kind of like fun and games, and it was like that for a bit of time, until it wasn't, you know, what it would look like is, you know, get drunk as really, any time possible. If there wasn't a time I would make it possible. I'd make that a reality, you know. And eventually what alcohol sort of become for me is kind of like just a way to take a deep breath, a way for me to feel like I can finally sit down, and I can let my guard down, and I can communicate with people, you know, I became funny. I became kind of like the life of the party, if you will, you know, and that was the solution at the time. The more I started doing that, in living that lifestyle, the more and more doors would open to other realms, kind of in association with that. And eventually, you know, you find find drugs, you find everything that has to come with it. And as a result, I've noticed it was, it was slow, and I could never see it looking back then, but like in the moment, but my relationships, my family, would start to become kind of like strained. My grades in school would start to drop. I'd start skipping school all the time. Just go do what I want. You know, it got bad. I I've been in and out of recovery since around the age of 15. I say in and out. I mean, I was exposed to it, you know. And I remember at that age, though, I mean, this is, this is everything to do with, like drug addiction and alcoholism, is that it has this unique ability to find any way for me to separate from what people are trying to tell me, you know? And at the time, it looked like, Well, I haven't done XYZ, I haven't lost a job yet. I haven't lost marriage. I haven't been homeless yet. So therefore I'm not bad enough. Turns out, you don't need to lose all those things to seek treatment if you do think you have a problem. But that's just where I was. And so again, I go in. My ears were closed. I couldn't hear anything that people had to say. But you know, got a lot worse. It was my junior year of high school. It was, I was pretty strung out on opiates, and I ended up going to treatment. And was 18 at the time, and I came into treatment, you know. And I see this a lot in people who come here, and I can just relate with this so much as I come in, and I'm all broken down. I don't know what's next. I'm terrified. I don't know how I'm going to get out of this, this hole I've dug myself in. But, you know, I get a few nights rest, few more meals in my stomach, and then my head starts telling me it wasn't that bed, it starts telling me I overreacted. And it's very subtle, too, you know, but I ended up staying for it was around like 50 days. I was talked into going to sober living, and this was out in Utah at the time, so I did that. I went in, I go to recovery meetings, I did what they would ask. You know, I'm very good at compliance. I'm very good in structured environments, and kind of learning how to operate the system to fit my needs. Manipulation is really what it is, you know, but I started drinking in that sober living because, again, I'm not like fully investing in I don't allow myself to really dive in.
09:05
So I have a question for you, as someone who's also a fairly young recovery, did you ever kind of struggle with the idea of I'm just really young that might be going through a phase, or maybe even hear that from outside people. And how did you build
09:23
fires? Yes, so, like I said, I went to treatment for the first time, 18, sober living 18. And there, there were some people that were like, Oh, well, I drank longer than you. How can you be an alcoholic? You know, that stuff would kind of mess with my head a little, but really it was just all myself, like, like you were talking about. I might just be in a phase right now. I know I'll probably get better at like 25 if I make it there. You know, I would always find some way to have age prohibit me from really getting involved in recovery. That makes sense.
10:05
25 was always my age. Number two, that's when you're Yeah. So your brain fully developed?
10:11
Yeah. That's what I would always tell myself, my brain wasn't developed.
10:16
Yeah. So what was the moment that you were fully convinced.
10:22
The moment I was fully convinced, it was about a year later, I had gone back home. I ignored all the suggestions people had told me, after sober living, don't go back to the same people places and things. I went back to the same people places and things fell easily back into the crowd of people I was hanging out with. It's like we had never gotten separated, you know. But over time, it did get a lot worse. What it looked like is I started burning every bridge I had, you know, with family, with my friends relationships, and eventually got to the point where I just isolated myself. My world got so small, like I really didn't know what to do. Fortunately, I had known a few people in the recovery community, and I got to reach out to them, and, you know, they call around and help me get into super living and from then on, and just kind of hit the ground running. Yeah,
11:17
so I have to ask, did you learn any cool tricks whenever you're skateboarding?
11:23
I did. I could, I could kick, flip, tray flip at the time. I can't anymore because
11:33
so after getting in the recovery community and deciding to step into this new way of living. How do you navigate relationships now? And we'll start kind of with your family, because you said, like you burn bridges with them, and things were kind of hard. So what does that look like today? And what can you do on your part?
11:57
What that looks like today, you know, is that it's not, it's not an overnight change. You know, I always had it in my mind, I'm getting sober. I'm starting to do the right thing. You know, approval and trust of them should come back like that. But that's not the word the case. You know, you got to put in hard work nowadays. You know, I get invited over for family functions. I even sometimes get to be the voice of reason that they go to when they have problems, which is crazy. I never thought that would be the case, but what it looked like when I first got sober this time was they had dropped me off at the sober house. It's kind of just like, you know, just stay here, and that's it. Focus on that. And you know, I'd call them on occasion, and it would always be, you know, my mom or my dad answering and being like, Hey, hold on, like they're in tears. They thought something bad had happened. Let me go get your father. But really, you know, I might just be calling because I want to talk to you or anything like that. You know, it took a lot of action. Something that was suggested of me, and that was very beneficial, was to call them every Sunday at three, you know, and not necessarily ask for anything, because I've been asking for stuff from them my whole life, but start actually trying to be a son for them. You know, ask them what's going on in your life. And, you know, first time, first few times, it's really awkward. I'd call be like, Hey, Michael silence for like, five minutes. You know, how you doing? Cool. Bye to now, you know, it looks like I get hour long conversations with them. You know, they just want to update me on what's going on in their life, and they don't have to worry about what I'm doing, because recovery has given me, you know, this ability to to kind of gain that trust back and to do the right thing, you know, and not only that, but to have the thought of doing the right thing be My first thought most of the times, which is never the case. Yeah, it
14:04
doesn't end up being that way most of the time. Yeah. So you said part in part of your story, you had convinced yourself, I'm not an alcoholic yet, because I haven't been homeless or lost a house or, you know this, and that was there a period where you went back out, and those things did start to happen.
14:26
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. So, like, I'm convinced every time you go back out, everything life goes to trash a lot faster. You know, started drinking, lost a job as a result of that, got kicked out of school. What else? I was homeless for a brief stint, you know, and all that stuff just happened within, like, the blink of an eye was never part of the plan. None of this is any part of like, ever part of the plan. I never woke up one day and decided, like, I'm going to drink, to lose all this stuff. It just kind of happens as we go in that lifestyle, you know, yeah,
15:07
so now you know, going through school and stuff as a kid, you said you're kind of a chameleon, yeah, a bit. And today in recovery and in the sober community, do you feel like you still are like that, or do you feel like you've kind of found your people? And what does that look like?
15:33
I know I found my people. I can say that with 100% certainty, but I mean to be honest, you know. So I'm still awkward. I'm still uncomfortable. Sometimes. The thing is, though I don't have this desire or really need anymore to try and change that, you know, I think the beauty of you know, the tools and the principles that recovery can teach you is like, just be yourself, you know, and not only that, but learn to hone in on that skill of just being you. Yes,
16:07
absolutely. I feel like that's probably one of the most value, valuable lessons that I've learned in recovery, is it's okay to show up as yourself like you don't have to hide that you can be in your own skin, and people are still gonna like you for you, which is really awesome. And so also, I'm gonna ask you a question that I often get asked, and I think people wonder about, do you ever being as young as you are? Do you ever feel like you're missing out on fun things happening? Oh, 100%
16:46
really. Yeah. So I got sober at 19 and that didn't really occur until I turned 21 in sobriety, and it's not maybe a quarter life crisis, but I was like, I'm 21 now. I can I can go to bars, and I can do all this stuff. And I never did that. I was never able to I can buy alcohol. I can buy cigarettes. And that really did mess with my head for a while. It was something I would talk to a lot of my friends about. But the thing is, and what I realized is, like, I mean, it's still, it doesn't get you anywhere. I mean, you know, I can go to a bar, I can have a few drinks, but then, then what, you know, I'm still 21 I relapsed, and I know that's going to take me, yeah, you know. And not only that, I when I turned 21 I had this idea that I was just completely boring, and there is nothing left to live for. I wouldn't be able to do kind of normal people activities. But that is not the case at all. You know, if anything, you can have a lot more fun being sobering. You can go to concerts. You can hang out with friends and actually form genuine connections and memories and remember that stuff too.
18:01
Yes, yeah. I like the honesty with the question, yeah. I definitely feel the same way. Like remembering especially what you're doing, having the funds to go do cool things is, is something I wasn't able to do whenever I think,
18:25
I think the funds, you know, I don't have to stress about where I'm going to sleep, or what I'm going to eat, or, you know what happened the night before? I don't wake up with that just kind of terror anymore. Absolutely.
18:38
So what did friendships look like comparatively now to when you were using and what, what was kind of your mindset in those friendships like? Did you think they were true, or did you know that they were kind of superficial? And what does your friendships look like today?
19:03
What they look like today is, I want to backtrack what they what they look like prior to sobriety, was a lot of them were transactional. You know, I had something where you had something that I could gain, or you could gain, and because of that, you know, like we're gonna hang out and do all the motions together. And you know, you do, you do have some genuine friendships out there, just because of all the stuff you go through together, you know, you form close bonds. And I still have a few friends that are out there that I wish would, you know, find this, this new path. But, you know, they not yet, at least today, what it looks like, though, is,
19:50
it's crazy. I don't even know how to put it into words.
19:57
You can go to each other. It's really anything that you're thinking about, any problems, whatever. And it has been my experience that I've never been steered the wrong way. My friends have and want nothing but the best for me in life. And you know, in return, I can reciprocate that we're just soundboards for each other. We're people who can just have a good time in life. You know,
20:28
I love that the recovery community has provided friendships for me that I never thought even existed. I was like, That's just some movie fairy tale. It's almost like unconditional love that you get from people you know, and they'll they'll still tell you how it is too. They'll keep you accountable and all the things. It's really awesome. So what are some of the challenges that you face, rebuilding some of your relationships and finding new friendships
21:07
with the rebuilding part, I would have, I guess, certain expectations of how it would look like, how fast the relationship would come back, and that it would be better than ever. And you know, that is, that is the case with a lot of them. However, there are a few that it's not where I want them to be at, you know. Maybe they're still mad at me or untrusting, or just don't know how to act around me anymore, you know. And it does kind of suck, but the cool thing is, it's like, I know nowadays I'm doing my part to my utmost to try and rekindle that relationship, and so I don't have to stress about that as much. You know, it's kind of on them, and just learning to live and accept that, not even with relationships, but just accepting life in for how it can unravel. You know, that's everything.
22:10
It's a good answer. And what about today? Did you ever like coming being new in recovery? Did you have any challenges on finding those people, and how did you find the right people in your group?
22:28
My group? Yeah, no. So again, going back to the really awkward and don't really know how to socialize, yeah. I it was, it was a struggle, and it is a struggle to talk to people when you're newly sober. I You're not alone in that. However, you know what I what I remember is I'd go to recovery events, whatever it may be, and, you know, there's a group of people talking, laughing, having a good time. That attracted me. You know, I want to be like that eventually. And so what it would look like is I go up to kind of just like, awkwardly stand there, try and be a part of the conversation, just figuring out what to say. You know, still insecure, but you know, they loved me and accepted me for that. They never asked, like, Hey, what are you doing here? Maybe you should go find some other people to talk to. They just let me hang around. Eventually, to the point I got comfortable and felt like I could be myself, you know? And nowadays we are like this, you know? You're just I have a group of people that I can do life with, and that's something I've never had in the past.
23:34
What's your favorite thing about sobriety? If you had to pick one thing, what's your absolute favorite,
23:49
my absolute, the greatest, The greatest gift I've received is, you know, it's you're there's a lot of things in my life that are amazing nowadays. You know, I have everything and more I could have ever wanted. And it's sounds like really the greatest thing I've ever received now is the simplicity in life, you know, I don't have to spin out in my head about, oh, how am I going to get this done? Or how am I going to do that? Whatever it may be. You know, today I get consistency. I get to wake up, I get to read some, some cool, positive, I guess literature. Go to a job. I get to come home, you know, and I get to eat consistent meals, have a place to stay and be surrounded by friends. And, you know, I know the fact is, like, if I continue to do what I need to do, I'm going to have that again tomorrow and have it again a week from now and all that, you know, I consistency. You know, my life is simple. And it's, it's, it's amazing, it's structured now, which is something I never had. And that's not to say, like, I don't do anything fun, you know, I get to have a simple life, but I also get to do, you know, crazy fun stuff, whatever that may
25:20
- Yes, and speaking of cooking and eating specific meals you love to cook, I do. What's your favorite thing to make?
25:38
What's something that you make often
25:40
so recently, I've gotten a little lazy. It's been just crap and beef
25:48
me too. Yeah, it's a great meal. Yeah, that could be simplicity, you know, yeah, making life easy. Something that I've wanted to make is I've saw this on Instagram a lot, and they are sushi tacos. So growing in sushi might be difficult, but this one, you just cut out the seaweed and put it in the air fryer and then put your fish on.
26:19
Sounds really good. Yes, I might have to look that up. Yes, you're the
26:23
chef here. You'll have to make that and then. But yeah, you get to find new hobbies and kind of invent who you are in sobriety too, right? Yeah,
26:39
yeah. Because, like, I got sober and, yeah, I do all this recovery stuff, and I love doing it now, but I also get to explore what do I enjoy in life? You know, that took, that took a very long time. That took maybe, like two years of doing this, because for the longest time, I had no idea who I was inspired. Because you got to think, like you get sober in that lifestyle that you've been living for so long is taken away. It's like, what do I do in my free time? How do I who am I? You know, if you do decide to do this, you might have like, kind of an identity crisis, if you will. I just want you to know that is completely normal. Everyone kind of goes through that. Hopefully you will have made connections in recovery to to have other people help you with that and walk you through
27:32
- Yeah, that's really good. So last thing, if you have any words of encouragement or anything that you want to say to anyone that might be watching is thinking about starting your recovery journey.
27:54
So I was desperate this time around. You know, the consequences of my actions put me in a lot of pain. And for someone like me, when I'm in a lot of pain, that's when I'm willing to, you know, take a few suggestions. I took those suggestions. However, I was not 100% convinced. I still didn't really want to do it. I couldn't see how it worked. But I promise you, if you follow other people ahead of you on this path, you will see the results start to unfold in your life. And that is coolest thing
28:25
ever. Yes, I agree, and I'm going to chime in a bit. Then I think you also start to recognize yourself and other people too, and that's something that I experienced a lot in your covers. We're all very similar, and you've got, you know, a big thing in common that kind of keeps us in such a great community, and you'll find more than you ever thought would be possible in sobriety, for sure. Well, thank you so much, Michael, that was great. You did awesome. So anyways, stay tuned for our next episode. And thank you so much for watching.