Welcome to Road Less Traveled, a Recovery podcast. Our mission is to bring awareness
to recovery and show that life and sobriety is not just possible, but can be very
fulfilling. I'm Ashley Wolover, Director of Outreach at Country Road Recovery Center.
We'll be diving into conversations about addiction, treatment, and the journey to
lasting recovery. Before we begin, we kindly ask that viewers refrain from commenting
the names of current or past clients of Country Road Recovery Center to protect
their privacy. A special thank you to Brooke Southerd who created the music for Road
Less Traveled. Thank you for tuning in. Let's get started on this journey down the
Road Less Traveled.
All right, everybody, welcome back to Road Less Traveled. I'm your host, Ashley
Wolver, And today we have a very special guest, Michael Fox. He's here today to
come on the podcast and share a little bit about his own story and recovery and
share about all the amazing work that you're doing today as well. So with that,
do you want to just kind of kick it off and share a little bit about your own
journey through recovery? Sure. Sure.
Yeah, I like to start off with just a little bit of my childhood. And the things
that I think led to my addiction and feeling discomfort in my own skin and all the
things that come along with lead to our addictions and, you know, substance use
disorders, I guess.
My parents were divorced when before my memory used to start and began, you know.
And I was with my mother. My brother was a baby. And we grew up with mom and she
was An addict herself, a person with substance use disorders. I always try to use
that term. Yes. The correct terms. But she was an alcoholic. And basically my
earliest memories were growing up in the back seat of a car while she was in the
bar. Wake it up all the way home with different men in the car.
Seeing a lot of abuse, seeing my mom beat on, getting slapped around ourselves.
just no normal, regular place to live, stay in where we could. I remember living in
a tent as a child on a hill and getting held back in first grade, so I wasn't
getting to school and just a lot of chaos all the time. Today, I'm sure we would
have been taken out of, we would have been put in DHS custody.
My dad was not in addiction, so he drank quite a bit, but he wasn't, he
functioning very much, you know, with the house, and got remarried, had step -sisters,
and he was always trying to get custody of us, but back in the early 70s, of
course, kids always stayed with the mom unless it was something major, you know.
So life went out like that for quite a while, and I think for me, what led to my
addictions, and ultimately all the problems was not getting that nurturing validation,
recognized, you know, just as a child, mother child relationship, I thought maybe I
wasn't worthy of those feelings. Maybe I wasn't even a conscious thought that I had.
I didn't know better. But I think that's what ultimately set in. I just thought
that I wasn't worthy of her love and affection. So that made me feel, led to
feelings of self -esteem, low self -esteem, just not being able to fit in.
I've always been pretty popular and people want me to hang out and stuff, but I'm
never comfortable in those settings. It's always like, I feel like at some point,
again, not even consciously. I just, I have this fear, I think, that I'll be
exposed and I go see I'm not worth their attention. So to not have those, that
kind of feeling, I just avoid hanging out with people, even today. You know, I've
been in recovery almost seven years and I still have those feelings. I still,
I spend most of my time at home, I have a couple of good friends that I'll go to
church with or go to a meeting with. But for the most time, all my time that I'm
not out of working, which is most of my time.
I've been home by myself, watching TV, or just doing my own thing. I have my son
and my granddaughter all he'll spend time with him and his family sometimes. When I
was 10 years old, I finally made that conscious choice to move up my dad, and life
kind of got normal for me. But unfortunately, I'm a firm believer that those first,
I don't know if it's one to four years, one to seven years, whatever, those first
years are very crucial to how we learned process information and perceive things.
And so that foundation had already been laid. I started smoking marijuana. I was
about 10 or 11,
doing cocaine one of my stepsisters was dating the cool guys in school and we
started doing cocaine in an early age summer between 9th and 10th grade just on the
weekends mushrooms and acid and all the things growing up in northern california i
was going to ask too and so you said that you the feeling that you didn't really
fit in with others kind of started at an early for you when you met this this guy
and started kind of hanging around your sister and him what was that experience like
for you did you feel like you belonged after that once I started getting high it
was like that's where that's what drew me to them I don't think it was their
personality's and yeah he was cool I remember his name and I mean they were and my
sister and I were pretty close but it was the addiction and getting that relief of
not having to feel my own feelings, you know, clean and sober, you know, not
feeling the way I felt uncomfortable, you know, my own skin. The drug use kind of
got me out of that, you know,
right? So to speak, and yeah, so it was alluring.
I I look forward to the next time and it progressed where it got pretty, you know,
pretty block common. And then I smoked weed every day, so I was always stoned at
least. Mushrooms and acid, you know, on the weekends and the cocaine here and there.
And yeah, it just, it all progressed. It wasn't one thing, it was another. But
there are certain things that I know, I knew that I liked, you know, highs that I
enjoyed more than others.
When I was a, I started getting into sports and so on There again,
that kind of gave me something to belong to, but even I remember me even in
baseball playing baseball I always felt like I wasn't part of the team. I always
felt a little off. I didn't feel You know, I was one of the better players,
but I was never in that click, so to speak when I was A junior in high school,
I think I quit when I quit high school. One of my sisters, I mean, you might have
kids as far. I got to back up. My mom met a guy when I was 10 years old,
and she moved in. They stayed together until she died. He took care of her. I
don't know how he stayed with her. She did all in a lot. There was a lot of
crazes and chaos, but he stuck it out with her all the way until she died of
cancer. One of my, His kids couldn't stand my mom, right? So she was kind of,
she was just being to everybody. My mom was very grumpy for me,
wallard and self -pity and alcoholism, and she ran his kids off quick. One of her,
my stepsisters had moved to Oklahoma, and her and I had stayed pretty close, had
gotten pretty close, and I came out to Oklahoma during the summer for I was living
with my dad. So when I was 18,
I moved a guy out of high school. I put my high school, got my GED, started going
to work in a car business. Cocaine was really prevalent. Started smoking crack, it
had just come out. Started shooting cocaine. It was the first time I shot up with
cocaine and heroin. I met a girl and heard I would do a shop.
We didn't worry about the things that we got to worry about today. You know, HIV
and EPC and all, so we didn't think about it. HIV had just come out, but it was
called Grid -Gate -related, immune deficiency, something along those lines. And so we
weren't involved in that crowd, so we didn't worry about it too much. So we were
sharing cocaine, shooting coke, and it was about a year and a half in the car
business. And my life was just spiraling out of control. It was too much money for
a kid that grew up poor, and I lost my license, lost my
And things got, we're getting pretty chaotic, pretty fast. So her and I broke up in
91, and I moved to Oklahoma in January of 92, and I was just going to come out
and get my, moving with my sister out here, she was married to be able to sit a
cop, get my feet under me. I made a conscious decision to quit drinking, I mean,
quit using drugs, and I switched to alcohol overnight. So I came out. I met this
girl, she was three months pregnant, and and our plans changed. We ended up moving
in together, we got married. I had a job at Taco Bell. I was surprised because you
could make a living and work in a Taco Bell and you could pay your rent and the
cost of living here was so much less than... Cheaper than John Morgan was. Yeah.
And so I was supporting us. She didn't really want to be tied down to some
alcoholic, but she didn't somebody take care of her kid and I just, you know, I
was there, available. So we ended up having another son along the way. We had my
son August in 93. And out of her conversation, she was going to move out.
This is December of 93. So I took my son, was going to raise my son. I called my
sister, had her come to get on. We went through all that crazy, crazy chaotic BS
of fighting and arguing. And she moved out and moved to some neighbors of ours.
She'd take care of my son during the day while I was working and come home to
take care of it and I'd drink I don't know how I thought I was he'd give my son
a better life than I would have when I was a kid because I was an alcoholic, but
that's how I just got you in the door. Yeah, so let me, so you, when you moved
to Oklahoma, you came to live with your sister. And then you met a girl whenever
you were here. Okay, gotcha. Within a day or two, actually, like two weeks. Yeah,
right away when I moved here, it was Like, yeah, I think it was the next day
after I landed, I met her. Yeah, so anyway, she moved out and then August of 94.
I was still holding together. I was drinking, maybe not quite as much as when her
and I were together because I think a lot of the fighting and arguing was also
contributing to my drinking. So just been my son and I, trying to have him to take
care of him. I think I was leveling out a little bit, getting a little bit better.
There was some hope for me to change my life anyway at that point. January of 94,
I called home and found out an ex -mine, I used to shoot an open with, intestin
positive for HIV, and moved back to Massachusetts to our family back there. And I
said, well, I don't have that. I've had two kids, and surely it would have showed
up in the blood work. Back then, I didn't know anybody with HIV positive. But I
would see it on the news. Patrick Johnson had just got kicked out of basketball. EZ
had died. Millions of people were dying. There was no medication. People were scared
to date. They were - What a time, though, what are this? Oh my gosh, yes. Yeah,
for sure. It was terrifying. There was some misinformation. They thought maybe
mosquitoes were able to pass it, just from, you know, biting one person to the
next, which ended up not being the case. It was terrifying time. You time. We were
scared to hug somebody or shake hands or drink after somebody or it was just nobody
was quite sure of how to react or how to act. So I went got tested thinking I
was fine. I'm sure I need to go get tested. I never been tested. February 5th,
1994 at 405 p .m. I got my diagnosis. I would take HIV positive. Yeah,
I was devastated. I was really upset, and I wanted to get married one time and be
married for having a normal life. And my wife leaving me was devastating. Six weeks
later, finding that out on top of that was too much. I'm already being a person in
the background that I had the foundation with the low self -esteem issues, liking
self -confidence, in 25 years old getting a diagnosis on top of that, nobody was
ever going to love me again. my life was over and it was terrified I remember
sitting there literally role playing okay here comes my last breath here it comes
and it would consume me I almost got put in that more and I couldn't care on the
conversation about the boo -hoo and thinking about dying and my son I thought for
sure you know my first reaction was oh my god my son and I called my ex -wife so
you need to come to get our son and you guys
You know, I just got diagnosed with HIV. I hadn't been with nobody else, so I knew
exactly. I had it the whole time we were together. How could they not have it?
And they all tested negative. I thought, oh my God, it's a miracle. And I thought
for sure that, you know, I thought it was just a miracle. I have bet that provided
a lot of relief. It did, but I was still too focused on dying. dying. It did.
I had no doubt I was going to because of all babies transition. When they're first
born, they were born with their mother's immune system. And they transition after
about a year and a half or so, they transition to their own immune system. I'm not
sure how all that to explain all that. But that's the case. And when babies
transition from their mother's immune system to their own, they all die to terrible
death. There's 20 different opportunistic diseases that can kill somebody that has
full -blown full -blown AIDS and most times it's a cancer or just something real
hideous and because of the bad choices I had made in life I've been watching my
son go through that I wasn't strong enough to do that and I was suicidal or even
after they tested negative I was still on the verge of suicide myself I stayed in
blackout drunk from 94 to 98 and an absolute blackout I don't really have many
memories are there a I was the DUIs between those 94 and 98 I ran somebody that
was at a bar that was selling meth and I'd get a shot of meth and never looked
back I quit drinking I threw my whole life into the meth games and then it just
started catching felonies and going to prison and things started progressing with my
selling kept my mind racing so that I didn't stay focused on the father died.
So, how did you have those feelings still, like that despair that you felt from 94
to 98 past that? Or did you kind of just push it to the side, not really worry
about it? I think I had those fleeting thoughts. And I mean, I knew my life was
pointless. You know, I threw my whole everything that my whole being I threw into
the meth game I always you know strove to have the best context of you know and
just grow my business and it kept my mind racing so I didn't stay focused on the
doctor so I might have those thoughts but they were fleeting I would have the
thought I would hold on to it long because I was shooting note three five times a
day so this was your distraction yeah this is absolutely my distraction and it was
my coping It was me coping with the diagnosis. In 96,
I think it was, they came out with a medication called AZT that was designed or
created in the labs to fight cancer, but it was too toxic. And so they shelved it
with all the pressure from society on the government to find something.
They ended up releasing it and using it to treat people with HIV or In fact, then
they were in the mindset that they would wait until you were the last of your days
when you were close to getting sick and then give you this medication in hopes to
keep you alive a little bit longer. Average life expectancy for somebody from the
time they contract it to the time they contract each other or AIDS. HIV turns to
AIDS and they die of one of the 20 diseases is generally about 9 to 11 years.
So they would put you on it. thank God I didn't have to I didn't my immune system
was able to hold it off long enough that I never had to take the easy tea in 98
or 99 they started having some breakthroughs with the cocktails with the you remember
he probably was you know week or not even around at that time but they had
cocktails there was three different medications that attacked the virus suppressed it
protecting healthy cells and I don't know how to explain all that work But it was
like 16 pills a day. I would take 8 in the morning, 8 at night. Oh my goodness.
Yeah, it was pretty rough. Most of those medications are no longer
emotional side effects. That was tough time.
And so anyway, they, I started taking the cocktail in 2000. I think it was one,
the first time I had cold top hell he was going to prison for the first time and
started taking medications and you know his nauseousness and vivid nightmares and just
emotional side effects that were pretty rough to deal
with yeah and then when i went to prison that time i remember being terrified with
my friends finding out so i didn't do anything any behaviors that would create risk
or to anybody else but i was always scared to death of anybody finding out My
close friend, they thought, oh, why do you take all those meds? Oh, I got a
vitamin deficiency or this or that. It was tough, you know, and I got out in 2003.
There was also just so much mistake. Absolutely, but which ones were right.
I mean, there wasn't enough information still. It was really tough. I just couldn't
imagine going through that during that time.
Absolutely. My family was just, I went home one time after my diagnosis. And my
best friends and my family, I mean, a lot of them were even, didn't know how to
react or how to, you know, infection, you hug them or nod or I remember feeling,
having weird feelings like, I didn't know how to act. I didn't want to push
anything on him and make them uncomfortable. Yeah, it was a real tough time. It was
very It's been very awkward and scary. You don't know when you're going to die. You
know, it was terrifying. Let alone isolation. I'm not going to ever have a partner
again. I'm a girlfriend.
I started selling drugs and I didn't meet a girl. And she, I lost the plug,
you know. So that was one of the things that kept me out my my addictions for so
long and be in the plug girls were willing to put them so we wear protection and
we did all these all precautions we could but you know they were willing to take
that chance to for their yeah for their addiction so in 2006 there started being
some evidence of people that were on the medications the cocktails the ARTs at home
antiretroviral There were some evidence that they were having less new infections.
The Swiss did a statement, in 2006 the Swiss came out after their studies, did a
release a statement called the Swiss statement. Undetectable equals untransmitable.
I mean, people that were on the medications and getting their virus suppressed so
low that they weren't able to detect it, we're not able to pass it. The United
States and I guess other People within who or whatever, the World Health
Organization, they wanted to do their own studies, so they launched a campaign of
studies. The one that I'm the most familiar with was called a partner study. It was
done in 14 countries, 11166 cirrodiscorted couples, when positive,
one not, people that were over there, I guess, together.
They monitored their blood work, made sure the person was positive, taking their
medication is is prescribed, did regular blood work, made sure they stayed in non
-technical wire blood. I guess they did their regular interviews about their sexual
practices. Over 58 ,000 condolous sex acts over this five -year study, not one sexual
transmission occurred. So they were on something, and they were like, well, so
there's over all three studies over a nine -year period, over 117 ,000 condolous sex
acts, not one sexual transmission occurred when the person was under technical and
taken their medication's was undetectable and they released the information in 2016.
In 2017, the CDC, September of 2017, the CDC launched the campaign U -E -E -E -E -E -E
-E -E -E -E -E -E -E -E -E -E -TTRAMable. I remember thinking, wow, life is going to get
normal now. I'm going to be able to have normal relations. I mean, wrong. The
stigmas were too ingrained. It was just, yeah, it was just,
people weren't receptive to the information, and there's still all the fear. On top
of that, nothing against anybody's sexual orientation whatsoever. I talk about this
all the time. But all the commercials, today there's lots of commercials with the
medications. That show all the information I'm talking about right now, but they're
always directly LGBTQ yes community and so a lot of people for whatever reason you
know aren't receptive to the information they see the two guys holding hands and
stuff and they just kind of they just you know they don't pay attention to it
because they think it's not pertaining to them and there's a lot of different
reasons I love doing my life today and getting to see and experience all
you know, personalities and why are people to do this and a lot of things,
especially in the addiction communities, substance use disorder, is people with engaged
in behaviors, especially when meth is involved, that they'll take to the grade, that
they don't want anybody to ever know, it's not just the sharing of the needles,
it's the sexual practices, it's all the things that come along with it. And so a
lot of times on those commercials, they don't want people thinking, oh, why is they
watching that commercial? life there's so many nuances and just little things that
you know keep people from paying attention to it and we're just a lot of people
start comfortable because they're not you know in life with their beliefs or whatever
but and what's really baffles me it's 40 % of people that have HIV or heterosexual
it's not just a gay disease one of the highest disproportionately of disproportionate
groups of new infections as housewives and stuff like that women that don't even
think to get tested their husband's out with they're doing whether they're doing
drugs or whether they're just curious and they're going out with the internet having
people having access to random dips or whatever many people experience or do things
on the download and take it home to their wives and watch don't ever even suspect
they don't go get tested it's so important to regularly get Get tested.
We could be rid of all these diseases.
It can be a thing in the past. Absolutely. If we would just get the whole world,
I would love to go on a worldwide campaign and get everybody to get tested two,
three times a year for a three kids. But because of all the misinformation, I think
COVID was really a huge setback for this because of all the misinformation, just so
many different things, I don't know if that's going to be doable or not. I don't
think it would be. So we have a hope of getting, reducing infection rate by 2030,
reducing HIV infection rate by 2030, but up to 90%. If we can get everybody to get
tested and get them diagnosed on the medication where they can't pass it, it could
be a thing in the past for it, or at least down 90%. That's amazing. It really
is. And people just don't know this. They don't know. When I speak at treatment
centers, I'd say less than 5 % of people know about the detectable and
untransminable. Yeah. Did you know? Oh, you did? Okay. It's just everything that you
experienced from what a diagnosis and like the hard feelings and the harsh reality,
I think naturally as humans, we just want to avoid that as much as possible.
I think so too. You know,
and I think that's why, you know, that so many people are unaware. It could be.
Yeah, they don't want to deal with the fear. Yes. That's kind of the common thing
among us recovery people, you know? Absolutely. Fear in so many different areas.
It's always the fear. Fear of success, fear of failure, fear of rejection, fear.
Yeah, absolutely.
So you said we are going to reduce by 2030.
Is that something that you are involved in today? Absolutely. It's my organization,
I started a foundation, the Fox Project Foundation. I started this off looking at
time in federal and I'm an addict, and I'm smarter than everybody else.
I'm manipulative. I know I can figure a way through this. So I'll play all my
childhood and my HIV status, and I started bugging when I went to, first I went to
12 weeks of a midpatient, then I went to 12 weeks of outpatient on pre -trial.
And I get bugging them. Can I, let me talk, let me talk. I stayed up on how the
men's work, the U equals you and all that. And finally they're like, we're tired of
you, bug us that fine we'll let you talk and it's a prime example of man plans
god laughs and it was like oh my god this is what my whole calling and everything
in my life is led up to this is what my purpose of life is that's amazing yes so
i spoke and they were like wow the one guy he was like the thing that stands out
me the most is how comfortable you are in your own skin about this and there's no
reason not to me you know I've had it too long to worry about you know somebody's
not comfortable and I'll do my best to educate them but if they don't want to deal
me that's it to them you know I accept whatever and I'm not going to take it
personal if they feel any specific way about it so the drug court I mean they're
yeah their drug court liaisons and can I show this with the other staff people at
drug court and next thing you know I're speaking to Judge Stoner and speaking to
all the different facilities and me too I love those children and I got to speak
to all the other facilitators from other and I was starting to speak on a regular
basis at outpatient programs and inpatient and then I got invited to be a member of
Oklahoma HIV and hepatitis planning council oh HHPC it's 125 organizations that deal
I think it's at least 125 organizations that deal with all the different things
related to health in terms of sexually transmission diseases and H .C.
HIV, syphilis, gondria, we deal with all of the different things.
It's amazing. You're doing so much stuff today. And I think, too,
like,
where you're doing is just so important for others to hear because even though
there's not as much thing like today as whatever.
There's still a lot of it, oh. Yes, and I think people still go through the same
emotions that you felt. Yeah, for sure. And one of my favorite things to do now
is, now I do through my organization, we facilitate, I go to set of
events where we go to different treatment centers, inpatient, and we go in and I
share my story, and then I educate and advocate the importance to get tested, and
then immediately following me speaking, we hold testing events and we get, generally
80 % of people get tested in these facilities. And, yeah,
so one of my, we've only had, we've tested probably a couple thousand in the past,
the past two years, but we've only had six positives for HIV. We've had hundreds
for hep CEP and a significant amount for syphilis. But one of my favorite things to
do is talk to somebody that has a recent diagnosis for HIV and let them know it's
going to be okay. We had one event where we tested and a girl that tested
positive. She put me back up. She was told that morning she was pregnant. She had
symptoms and nauseousness and she was pregnant. And the same day, a few hours later,
we told me she was HIV positive. I'll never forget. And I cried, I cared up.
And I was like, I remembered all my emotions that I dealt with. And I couldn't
imagine being pregnant. You can't say, my baby, my baby. They let me hug her, and
I bell her. She was just sobbing on my shoulder. And I said, look, this was a God
from your right where you're supposed to be. You don't have me on medication within
a day or two. I said, your baby won't be born with HIV because you'll be on the
medication to prevent that. And if you're really lived to be 100 years before, you
still live to be 100, provided you take your medication and you do your labs and
all that that you're supposed to. As long, so that's like, I feel like, and I'll
let you kind of close
exceptions about HIV viruses. Absolutely. As long as you take your medication,
it's still factor in your life. No. right it's um i'm out of all my steps and
things and my brothers and sisters and all of them i'm probably the healthiest one
out of all of us they're like we thought she'd be the first one to go you know
almost 40 years of ivy drug use 34 years of HIV following being HIV positive and
i'm in the best shape of my life i'm 58 years old and i'm man's down that would
be my best life today it's amazing so I, you said something off camera earlier that
I just loved, but you said that, you know, when you first got your diagnosis, he
kind of cursed and thought it was the worst thing. Absolutely. How do you feel like
it's my greatest aspect? Yes, absolutely. I wouldn't sell my diagnosis for a million
dollars. Yeah. And not because I'm rich today, or I have a lot of money. I mean,
I drive a 2008 toilet yard for 300 ,000 miles, but My life today is absolutely
amazing, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically, better than anything I ever
imagined was even possible. I found a way to learn everything I could about my
diagnosis, and now I use it to help others.
It's the best feeling in the world being able to see the light come back in
somebody's eyes. That girl that we had diagnosed, you know, she was like, I would
have been out of here if you hadn't and come and talk to us, I would have been
out of here. I would have been off, shooting down, off, you know, when running, I
could give it up. Yeah, give it up, it's absolutely. So, you know, I still talk
to, she's doing really good. She's still in recovery, and yeah, she's doing really
good. It's amazing. Ultimately, she lost her child to syphilis too, which is a real,
there's a stronger co -infection, a big co -infection rate in syphilis and HIV.
I know the DIS and your disease intervention specialists were holding an event here
recently in one of the homeless areas and testing every week. And they were testing
20 % of people who were having to test positive for syphilis and there's a lot of
them are also tested.
- - question for you. Like with HIV, there's a lot of times, that it goes That goes
unnoticed because there's not a whole lot of strong symptoms,
correct, for a little bit? Yeah, there could be no symptoms for a number of years.
Typically speaking, if you got infected today with HIV, you could go test tomorrow
and you would be negative. Somewhere in the next 90 days, usually it's within the
first, like 90 % within the first 30 days you'll it's called seroconvert C or CY R
or something like that serial conversion is it does something in the chromosomes and
you might get like flu -like symptoms so a serial conversion is the doctor asked me
when I had my got my diagnosis he goes do you remember being sick or anything that
something that stands out and I knew exactly what he had talked about a couple of
years had had flu -like symptoms, but my equilibrium was off. I couldn't, you know,
I'm super dizzy and nauseous because of it. You don't typically feel that way with
the flu. And I went to an emergency room, and I went to the emergency room,
and they did all kinds of tests, they said, well, we don't know what it is, we
can't, you know, because they weren't able to detect, they didn't have the rapid
test for HIV that in fact then. So they said, it must be just kind of virus, just
drink lots of fluids, get some rest and so it stood out so much so that when he
asked me that I remember exactly when I've also heard of a seroconversion where the
girl had like flu -like symptoms but she had cramping really bad which you don't
really have that you know lay cramps will have the flu family speaking so it's it
could be something like that and majority of people that contract each other you'll
have a serial conversion not all of them but you can go. And a lot of people
overlook it is just maybe it was a flu or just a virus and so they wouldn't think
to get tested. It's really important, especially if you live any kind of risky
lifestyle or whatever. I can't stress enough the importance of getting tested. You
know, just get tested, get it addressed. There's nothing to be ashamed of. If you
live the life of addiction,
you've been at potential risk for at least one, if not all the different things,
you know, Hep C, syphilis, HIV, Godorea, they're all real, and we're in high risk.
And so what is, you mentioned the VARC Project Foundation a little bit.
What are the other things that you get to do today? Oh, I do, I collaborate with
O 'Carta, I work with O -Carta. O -Carder stands for Oklahoma Citizens Advocates for
Recovery and Transformation Association.
So yeah, I get to partner with them and I basically go out to trip for all the
different connections I had and I support them. They support
to discuss the different things that they offer, such as anger management, Women and
Children's Programs, their silver
living houses that they have. They also have a women and children's silver living,
which is important.
Yes.
You can get your peer recovery support special through them. They have the offer
classes.
It's a 16 -week course once a week before you, to do the training to get your PRI
stuff.
How cool, and I think a lot of our texts utilize that at our training. Oh,
yeah, you can be a Zoom or in person. I also partner, I collaborate with Star Pre
-Natal Clinic, which is a pre -native clinic for women with substance use disorders.
Very cool. Yeah, and I think that's really important. They have like an 85 % success
rate of keeping the mother child together. They offer alternative to get them off,
you know, suboxone and all the other things to get the mothers off.
Cool. So you get to do such amazing work today and you
I think what you're doing is needed for people.
Last question for you is if somebody like that mother that you met the other day
came to you and just was feeling all the things you were feeling,
getting a positive diagnosis for HIV.
Oh, it's going to be okay. I mean, it's, I just, yeah, absolutely. It's going to
be okay. You just, you have to get your blood awarding out, and you got to get on
medication, which the medication's down one pill once a day. They even have a
cabanuba came out in, I believe, 2021, February of 21, there's just a, it's an
injectable, and you go to the doctor office once every eight weeks, you get two
shots, one in each end up, and you stay in the technical, you can't pass it, you
can have the kids, You don't have to worry about infecting anybody. I mean, it's
absolutely, the science is so much better than it used to be. And you can live a
full life now. It's no factor in my life whatsoever. The girl I was dating for six
years, she was like, I don't even think about it. She goes, you know, without
exception. You know, when I'm first, when I'm, my relationships are slow. I get to
know somebody I don't go to bar often and just, you know, meet some girl, plus I'm
going to go around a little barbed anyway, but that's one thing that I do struggle
with. I've lived a life of incarceration and addiction, and I don't have much
schooling, and my speech isn't very clear, and I'm not a fluid speaker. I get
nervous. My vocabulary is not large. I struggle for wording, and so I'm not a
fluid, good person. When it comes to speaking, and I don't know how to explain all
that, but I think that adds to my rawness, and it adds when I'm at treatment
centers, it helps people, I could go to school, I couldn't go to Toastmasters and
get refined in all this, I really could, and I've had people say, hey, you know,
you can, and I've thought about it, but I don't want to do that because I'm going
to, right, the people I speak to, majority of people I speak to a room recovery at
treatment centers, and I want to inspire them. This guy, if you're stumbling through
this awkward and uncomfortable and all over the place with his vocabulary, if he can
do something like this, maybe I can't do. And I tell people all the time, whatever
has beat you down in life, whatever's got you an addiction, whatever has been your
struggle in life, find a way to find acceptance, find a way to learn all you can
about it, and use it to help others. And I promise you and put the show out in
your life. I just, I had control issues, dependency issues, which I still have.
The addiction is a tangible thing. I don't do it with drugs and alcohol anymore. I
can sense all the other things that led to those, that led to that, those never go
away. You just have to learn how to cope with them and have to deal with them and
be mindful of them all the time. I think it's so important. That's why people I
think recovery you see your people that have been sober 10 years they go back out
it's because those issues don't ever go away and they quit maintaining their
awareness they got too complacent and they slip because and I think it's really
important to stress that and fighting purpose I don't think there's enough emphasis
on finding purpose that's why if you're in recovery and you can't find your niche
in life you can't find your way of helping people get a PRS, there's so much work,
there's veterans, there's mental health, some of the Jews, there's society is starting
to recognize that our lived experience is much more beneficial to people struggling
and all the bookwork and all that, you know, and there's a lot of opportunities.
You might not get rich, but you live a emotionally fulfilling, you know, satisfying
life. And, yeah, there's so many times I'll see People in recovery,
I recently met, have a good friend, a new good friend, and I heard Steve for the
first time last night. I was like, it was one of the most powerful stories I've
ever heard in my life. And the whole room was just dead quiet. I mean, he's going
to make a huge impact of the world. And I hope that he can get on that track and
get that drive to do that. And yeah, he's got a lot to offer. hopefully you make
so it's cool to sometimes watch people bloom oh man yeah this is one of those god
relationships that uh was one of things in recovery that uh this was a person that
i don't want to go into the whole story but absolutely hated me we had never met
had vowed to harm me and now we're becoming best friends that's amazing yeah i've
heard a couple stories like that that happened in recovery and that just shows you
how powerful and trauma is community related. Absolutely yeah it's yeah I had to go
meet and sit I ran across him at one of the treatment facilities I was at and I
was like oh no and I called the director said hey I was supposed to be doing a
testing event and I got to speak and there's a person there that has found to do
me serious harm and So I said, I've never met him. And so anyway, we ended up
sitting down. I was nervous. I went in there and, yeah, you know, we talked to it.
Wow.
One of my closest friends is crazy. That's so cool. Yeah. I love that. Absolutely.
Well, you've got such an amazing story yourself, and I think the work that you're
doing is really important. And so can people go, do You have a website. Do you
have a Facebook page specifically for Fox Project? I need to put one out. I need
to start doing social media. I need to do TikTok. I need to start putting all that
stuff out. So I might start doing that. But as far as you can go to the website
and you can reach me through, you know, either my email or my phone member that's
on the website.
Yeah, I'm getting ready to put a list of all the sober livings I collaborate with
or, you know, as a point of reference so people have access to that's great
resources that's awesome well everybody go check out the fox project foundation
website it's www.combe project foundation. Thank you
so much for coming today. I really enjoyed listening to your story. I hope I was
stuttering and all over the place too bad. No, it was perfect. Like you said, and
I'm the same way, it's better to just show up, you know, as yourself would be
authentic, because that's what people will hear. And I think it was an amazing
episode. I'm good. Thank you. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for watching
this episode. And stay tuned for the next. Thank you for having you.