All right, everybody, welcome back to the Roadless Traveled. I'm your host, Ashley
and today we're going to be doing something just a little bit different. I'm
here with both Daniel, the CFO of Pathways, and Drew Laboon, CFO of
Pathways. And today, instead of doing a traditional recovery story,
like we typically do, we're lifting the curtain on the people who steer the ship at
Pathways. And we want to talk about the why behind some of our decisions here at
our company and more about the heart behind the mission and what we do here.
I'm excited to be here. I'm really excited to be here, actually. It's an honor to
do anything for pathways, especially, you know, this podcast. I remember when we
started this podcast, oh, three or four years ago, excuse me, we were down at the
facility level and kind of finding a room and a different place to do it. It was
kind of a piecemeal, kind of a Frankenstein podcast. And so it's really exciting to
see how far it's come and how far you brought it. I'm excited to do this with
Daniel, you know, and bring this to a little bit different, different flavor to it
this week. And we're excited. So I'm excited to be here as well. I just want to
correct one thing. The ship is steered and the heart of the, of The Pathways brand
are the people who work day to day. I just try to stay out of their way.
I love that. Well, we're very excited to kind of hear a little bit about both of
your unique stories and the different perspectives about, you know,
why your heart specifically is in this mission. And Drew, we'll kind of start with
your story a little bit with going through one of our facilities here and, you
know, your journey throughout our company. Yeah, thanks.
My, I think I'm a fairly garden variety alcoholic compared to a lot of folks. You
know, I spent years after my retirement for the military, you're struggling with
alcohol and then drugs. And I finally reached my bottom, you know, in 2019, I'd had
enough. And we say, you know, in the recovery community, that it takes what it
takes. You know, there's no single person or situation that can strike us to a
point we're ready to get well. But for me, you know, I was effectively homeless
living in my car, had no place to go and nobody else to turn to. And I ended up
actually here in Oklahoma because the last family on earth I had that would answer
the phone when I called is my auntie my cousin who live in Norman and I vaguely
remember driving across the country in a blackout and I was in Oklahoma for about a
week when and I had been to treatment multiple times you know two different
residential treatment centers five times in detox and when I got to Oklahoma I
finally realized you know if I don't do something different I'm really going to die
and for the first time I don't know what was different about that day I think I
just had enough and you know I wasn't reaching out asking for help for anybody else
anymore I was asking for help for myself and so I called the national alcohol
hotline they put me in touch with or they gave me the phone numbers for several
different places and took TRICARE and I started calling around and our admissions
coordinator at our Oklahoma facility actually answered the phone at about 7 o 'clock
on a Saturday night and so had me in detox Monday morning and I actually went out
to our local facility Country Road Recovery Center in 2019 and you know graduated
there, went into sober living, I finally for the first time, you know, listen, did
what everybody told me to. You know, I always thought I knew better. I have the
next good idea. I know what I needed to do this out of the other. And, you know,
this time I stopped thinking I was too good for everybody else's advice and I
listened and went into sober living and I was sober about 10 months. And I got a
call to go out and interview for an admission coordinator position. coordinator
position. I went out. I got the job, started working in admissions and I became the
admissions director. Then it was funny. Actually, Daniel was in town because we were
bringing on board a new online marketing company and I knew they had been
interviewing folks. Excuse me. It's great to do this with you because I told this
story before, but they were interviewing folks to do the marketing job. If you
remember, I kind of cornered you on a break. And I said, hey, I know you guys
were interviewing all these folks from marketing. I want to do this job. You know,
nobody's going to sell this organization like me. It saved my life. And he was
like, what experience do you have? I was like, none, but I could talk about our
program. They took a chance on me, right? And let me start going out and doing the
outreach. And I was doing admissions and outreach. And had the opportunity there to,
I was in the admission department of one and as business started to pick up, and
we started to get busier, I had the opportunity to kind of rewrite how we go about
admissions and build an admissions team there and completely rebuild and rebrand our
outreach department. And so, you know, gaining that experience and kind of cutting my
teeth in the industry in admissions, it was really easy. One, I've been a client at
treatment centers so many times. And I've been to the best and the worst treatment
centers. I've been to really nice ones. I've been to, I've woken up on the floor
of the psych ward at the VA hospital before. So having all that experience as a
client and then having the opportunity in the industry to kind of start from the
ground up really shaped the decisions I've been able to make. And I started
traveling with our founder to go look at do acquisitions visits.
And they afforded me the opportunity to start going to some national conferences and
start building the Pathways brand, right? The Pathways name. It wasn't two years ago,
we were three facilities. We had a facility in Kansas City, a facility in Wichita
and a facility in Oklahoma. And over the last couple of years, we've built to, now
we have our men's programs, Serenity Park in Little Rock, Arkansas. We're just adding
our fifth facility here in Oklahoma City. In fact, we're sitting in that building
now. We built this podcast room, Renewal Springs, 30 -bed deluxe detox. We've made
billing and utilization review its own business. So the opportunities to learn and to
grow and to remember our why, right? Like, it's not lost on me that seven years
ago, I was homeless in my car. It's not lost on me that when we go to the
facilities and visit, I go sit with clients at lunch. I go sit in the groups,
remember my why of why I do this thing. And it's a blessing now to turn around
and hire alumni of our programs, right? alumni working outreach.
Our admissions team is full of alumni in our programs. We have a clinician at one
of our facilities. There's now a master's level licensed clinician that seven years
ago went through the program. And so it's
who we are and the decisions we make because we remember what it's like to be that
person still struggling. Absolutely. And specifically with Renewal Springs,
I kind of did want to touch on that a little bit. With developing this program,
and we're kind of shaping things the way that we would want them to.
And so what does that look like with Renewal Springs? Well, everything from the
layout, right? Like, it's not only is at a very comfortable place. And so everybody
knows, you know, from the very top down, our team was down here on the ground,
kind of executing on the work. But from the very top, our founder, I remember when
we were picking out furniture and mattresses, he told me, he said, Drew, I want you
to go try those mattresses because we're not going to go with just baseline stuff.
We want people to be comfortable and well taken care of. And that comes from our
very founded, right? So we want people to come in here and be seen as human beings
to be treated with dignity and respect in a comfortable environment. You know, we've
got comfortable furniture. We're going to have great food. We've got a great chef
here with a phenomenal kitchen. And we're very intentional about the things do right
so we we do things a little bit differently um fact a lot differently in pathways
which is why you know I remember we've hired consultants before to to to help with
things we didn't up being you know we stopped hiring consultants because nobody does
things the way we do we figure things out and we learn as we go and like we're
employing wearable biometrics here at at Renewal Springs to ensure that the detox
process goes smoothly and then we have 24 hour monitoring of vitals and sleep
studies and you know there's a tv in every room there's there's outstanding food
here um and it's it's run by people in long -term recovery people that not that
many years ago were laying in one of those beds probably not as comfortable um but
we're laying in one of those beds going through the detox process um our clinical
director director here, has not only years of experience, but personal family
experience. So we've got both sides of it that creates an environment where every
decision we make and everything that we do truly is client -centric,
client -focused so that we provide the very best care that we can to every person
that walks through our door. Absolutely. When you've been through it and you've got
such a heart for the mission, that changes just the way that you do things in
general. And so, Daniel, I did want to talk to you a little bit and kind of open
up the floor because you have kind of a different perspective on the family side.
So firstly, I want to say, like listening to Drew's story and remembering when I
first met him and when we had that conversation about him taking over marketing and
we had that conversation back in our corporate offices in New Jersey, to where we
are today is truly incredible.
And it's just Drew and his team and his dedication and me staying out of the way,
or us staying out of the way. Trust me, we get involved in certain things, but
certain things I try not to get involved in. And I want, you know, listening to,
you know, I know what we've grown and I know what he's done. And I remember when
we were talking in corporate, like, should we make him marketing or not? And I was
like, I'm like, it could only have upside. I'm like, because if it works out,
it's just, he's just such a good person and he's gone through it. And he just
brings so much. He brings the energy. He brings the passion. And I said,
we should just let him have his wings. And that's kind of like a managerial
approach I have in general. Like when you hire people for jobs,
you have to hire the right people, but not only the right people for that job, the
right people who work in that environment, right? people who
appreciate autonomy, people who appreciate that, you know, they'll have to figure
things out on their own. I remember when, and I'll get to my story in a second. I
remember, like, one of my first jobs, I got a call and I had to do something,
a very complicated statistics calculation. And I went to my boss and I'm like,
I have no idea what to do. He's like, you're a bright guy. You'll figure it out.
That was it, I'm saying? But anyways, getting back to my story.
So I grew up with someone in my family who had addiction, and I'll be the first
to tell you. I didn't understand it. I didn't get it. I was like, just stop,
you know. And then I think it was around 2001, 2002. I get a phone call for this
family member he he needs to be bailed out of jail so i went down and i bailed
him out of jail i'm like what happened so he said i got into a fight with
somebody in the city in new york city because i was in new york city and the guy
looked like he broke my broke my family member's nose and he called the cops and
the cops came down and the guy who broke his nose ran into a skyscraper building,
right? Like, you know, I don't know, 50, 60 stories. And I'm like, okay, but why'd
you get arrested? So he said, because I was yelling at the cops that they had to
go into to this building and find the guy. And the police officer said to me,
he goes, don't, don't you see the craziness in that logic? Like, I can't, we can't
go into a big sky pretty come. We're going to find a needle in an haystack. And
this family member just went crazy on crazy on the police officer. So they took him
in. So then I said to him, I said, listen, you can't keep going on like this.
We got to get you help. And two days later, he calls me up, he goes, this place
in Malibu. I want to go there. And I had been doing my own research and somebody
told me about a different place and somewhere else. And obviously, I didn't know
what to do, right? So someone told me to call this therapist so I called the
therapist and the therapist said to me if you're a family member wants to go to
treatment and he told you where he wants to go just send him to treatment right
just you're ready past the biggest hurdle so that was like my first anything to do
with with addiction and then I didn't with the addiction space and the recovery
space I didn't have anything to do with it for many, many years. I actually have a
finance background. I worked in Manhattan in the finance industry for 15,
16 years. And then I worked in three companies and drug rehabilitation somehow came
across my desk. And
then I started looking into it. And, you know, whatever I looked into back in 2020,
when I first looked at my first, you know, potential acquisition, I knew nothing.
I thought I knew something. I knew absolutely nothing. I've learned so much since
then. But part of the reason why I went into the space is because
I wanted to help people. I wanted to know that, you know,
listen, at the end of the day, I'm the CFO, I'm a number's guy that also obviously
comes into it. I'm not going to not say that, but, you know, coming from the
finance world where I remember I once had a conversation with somebody, I'm like,
what are we giving back to the world? Like, you know, and the person had an answer
for me, but it was like, oh, just the made -up you're giving liquidity to the
market. I'm like, okay, very nice. But not giving anything back to the world. So
once I went to healthcare industry, then you're starting to give back. And then I
had the opportunity to get involved in this space and really help people that,
you know, something I actually dealt with. And I know how hard it is, I remember
how hard it was just growing up with a family member like that and living with a
family member like that and most importantly not understanding the family member right
since since I've gotten involved in the industry I learned something about the
industry so I learned about the 12 steps and I I don't I'm not going to tell you
I know everything but you know I know a little bit about it and when when I sit
and talk to Drew I'm like
We need to, like our product is most important, meaning like our,
our mission, not so much our mission, but our recovery plan to get people to
recovery. Like a lot of these, a lot of these recovery centers have like 30 -day
programs. We have a 60 -day program because we want people to really get better.
Like we're personally invested in a different way than we were and then we would be
if it were just if we didn't know anything about it or we didn't understand right
so we're there's a different drive that comes behind that and and a different
passion and a different thought process i think um with decision making and every
decision we make it's very it just shapes um everything very different you know the
the i told the founder, I'm like, oh, and he bought into this idea, like, we have
to realize we don't know what we don't know, you know, and let the people who know
do it. And we have conversations and sometimes we understand, sometimes we don't
understand. But at the end of the day, we acknowledge,
we don't know what we don't know. And having people who actually know, that's, you
know, we, We're very happy with that, and we try to give them as much room as
possible. Absolutely. I love that. So now let's talk a little bit about how we make
decisions and why I matter. And Drew,
let's talk a little bit about how you balance heart and sustainability.
Heart and sustainability. So that's,
It gets to be fun. At heart and sustainability, I kind of, in the business sense,
because at the end of the day, right, it still is a business. I translate that
down to, like, mission of ego.
You know, there are times where Daniel and I might not see I -I -I on something and
we're able to get on a call or sit face -to -face, have a very frank conversation.
Sometimes we butt heads about it, not very often, but occasionally, you know, we
haven't passed and, you know, we come to an understanding and ultimately the
decisions that are made are what put the organization first,
because the organization first is what leads to our ability to continue to care for
and treat clients, you know, down the road. If the business side isn't stable,
then we're not able to help anybody, right? And so a lot of it comes down to what
mine on the operations side is that I believe in providing staff -centric leadership
or staff -centered leadership so that our staff then can provide client -centered care,
right? And I think that trickles down. And, you know, he'll talk about on the
business and the finance side. But ultimately, I think you could boil it down to, I
think up and dream up these new cool ways to fight outstanding care and spend
money. He tells me, no, we can't do that, or let's try to figure that out. Because
there's some really, our growth is not just in real estate. Our growth is in
clinical program expansion, right? It doesn't look like property, but what it looks
like is, is human lives, better outcomes, right? Everybody talks about outcomes and
throws it around as a buzzword in this industry. But if you sit down and talk to
somebody, like how many people actually know what outcomes means? How many people,
they throw it out there, they throw out the word innovation, and that it's a cool,
sexy word to say in the industry right now, but how many people actually innovate?
How many people are actually taking, cutting edge, either technology or thought
processes or new techniques, bringing them into their organization, right,
and employing them in a way that at the end of the day, with the goal of it gets
people, like to Daniel's point, it gets people in recovery, it keeps them in
recovery and it gets them to a new life, right?
Because we always tell people, you don't want your old life back. Your old life was
terrible. My old life sucked. We want a new life, right? And so that mentality and
that thought process from our founder and Daniel's office in New Jersey all the way
down to my office, down to every executive director, down to every entry level tech
is why we have greater than 60 % of our clients reach a year sobriety.
That's triple the national average. It's an incredible number. Yeah. So what are some
of the outcomes that we measure success in our programs? So we've shifted that a
lot, right? Old ways to measure outcomes used to be, you know, has their depression
come down? Has there anxiety to come down? I always thought that was a silly way
to measure outcomes, right? Because, you know, for me, I was drinking three leaders
of Jameson a day. three leaders of Jameson a day you get me sober for a couple of
weeks obviously I'm going to feel a little bit better right so it's a silly way to
do that so the way we we measure outcomes in fact we're very very involved in in
working to reteach payers right the insurances community partners everybody the better
way to measure outcomes is is we look at engagement in their treatment plan right
well they're in treatment. We look at their participation. You got to take an active
role in your own recovery.
Their agreement to and then following a discharge plan, right? Are they completing
treatment? Are they moving into sober living like we suggest? Are they keeping up
their following on appointments? Or they go into meetings? Are they starting their
life and recovery? So following the discharge plan, we, a big one we measure is
engagement in the alumni program. So that's one of the things that sets us apart
very differently is all of our programs across the Midwest have their own unique,
independent alumni programs that are led by an alumni of our program.
And so,
and we can always tell if somebody's followed off the wagon, they stop engaging in
the alumni shop. they stop showing up right we have weekly zoom meetings they have
monthly meetings where they take they take a meeting back out to the treatment
centers right so they are they engaging in the alumni program and then are they
plugged into some uh recovery program whether they're participating in smart recovery
and this part of the country well variety is big right the the the first nations
the native um recovery program you know, celebrate recovery, faith -based,
narcotics anonymous, alcoholics synonymous. Are they plugged into some recovery program,
right? So participation in treatment, completion of treatment, following and adhering
to a discharge plan, engagement and an alumni program, and then participating and
actively plugged into some recovery program. If they're participating and working and
they complete those five things we don't have they don't slip between the cracks
they don't fall off the wagon because then when they're struggling they're having a
hard time they know who to reach out to they know where to go um you know they're
they're tied in with a network new network of people um that don't want anything
from them other than for them to be be well right to be happy absolutely community
is so important and You know, we want to provide that for people. And my job in
that is when you come up with all these ideas is how do then figure out ways
where we
would be able to show insurance companies and payers that these practices have lower
recidity rates and therefore you know we're higher quality and you know at the end
of the day no matter how how much we want to give and we want to help people if
we don't have the money we can't do it so so if we could prove to the insurance
companies that we have a high quality program with statistics and show them and they
actually show them outcomes they've actually given us some very nice rates to help
us in our endeavors well that's why we're a great team too because i throw him all
this data and i compile all these numbers for outcomes and then he takes him and
goes to you know the insurance companies and the regulatory bodies and it's like
here you know we're going to do this and then we're able to put those you know
those profits back in the organization i think there's a little bit of sustainability
and heart right on the on the couch.
So, Drew, you've sat at the chairs at Country Roads, and now you're in a leadership
role and a pretty large decision maker in this organization.
So what does that responsibility feel like for you? And,
you know, just a little bit more on how that affects your decisions today.
So I really try and everything I do to remember my why, right?
It can get, you know, being in this level of leadership,
it can be easy to be separated from the people we serve. But that's why when we
go to facilities, I go and sit with clients. I go and interact with clients. I
make sure I'm around clients so that I remember my why, right? And every big
decision we make, I ask myself, right? Because in my role in operations, right,
most of my decision making, I ask, how is this going to affect our staff and our
team? Right. Because our staff and our team really are, Daniel hit the nail on the
head when of this like like the steering the wind in the sales for pathways
recovery centers are our clinical teams our staff teams right like who's who's face
to face need and need with our clients every single day and so you know a lot of
these operational decisions um that i make particularly when it relates to process
and policy right uh i ask myself how is this going to impact um that front front
line staff right and that's where some of the benefit of you know our founder and
daniel and folks taking taking a gamble on a guy like me like all right let's give
him his wings right i'm so grateful for that but that what that does is it puts
me in a situation where i remember what it was like to be that that staff member
i remember what it was like to be that entry level employee and the way some
decisions that that you know made I know how that's going to impact that staff and
you know when I go to the facilities I try to go I sit I go sit with the tech
department you know I go sit in the in the tech office right and see how how
they're doing how are things going no seriously you know let me know I go door to
door with each of our clinicians I go sit in their office and talk to them how
are you doing a you know I sit with our executive directors regularly, I sit with
the clinical directors and say, you know, what needs do you have? I'm grateful to
have an incredible chief of clinical here that really does lead a groundbreaking,
one -of -a -kind in the entire country clinical program. I'm a product. I'm alive
today because of the work that Kimberly does
because she was the clinical director when I went through Country Road, when I went
through there as a client. And so, you know, all of our staff remember what it was
like. And we make it of an appointment. We make it very specific. And, you know,
Daniel does the same thing. We were just out of Country Road today. And he took a
walk around, talking to staff, meeting with staff, interacting with staff, how the
decisions we make is sometimes seem so far removed behind a computer screen,
how it's going to impact those folks that we depend on to provide that high level
care. Absolutely. I would say, I would say that for me,
every time I try to interact with people, I try to check my ego at the door and
never, and never, you know,
bring, think that I know better than anybody else. I always tell people if you have
a way of doing it that you're comfortable with, that gets to the same outcome. And
I wouldn't do it that way. That's fine because that's what you're comfortable with,
and that's what you know how to do.
One of My favorite recovery slogans is ego, edging God out.
And I think that's like, I think that's a life slogan, not just a recovery slogan.
And, you know, that's, I try to, I almost never yell at people.
I did yell at someone the other week, but that was a crazy situation. The person
just couldn't seem to get it right. But I try not to yell at people. I try to
really show everyone that I appreciate the work that they do. That's wonderful.
And so you have a why as well. How do you personally stay grounded in your why
while also being in such a large financial role?
I look
at it. I look at it that I want the people who work with me to all be
successful, and I want to set them up for success. And I never want to bring
someone on that I think is not going to be set up for success. We're not a
layered organization, and there are some people who work in layered organizations and
need that and bringing them into a company like this they would fail right so i
want everyone to succeed i want to give them the tools to succeed um and i really
take a lot of joy in seeing in seeing that you know i wouldn't say that my why
is is tied to my family member in recovery i would say my one
thing I've noticed in pathways is that a lot of people love working here and are
very loyal to it and loyal to the brand and I would tell you there's nothing new
with me but I appreciate that a lot I think that is very important and that's
something I try to do daily with everyone I interact with.
So I don't know if that answered your question, but it was a great answer.
I love that. So Drew, a minute ago, you mentioned the word innovation and how
that's kind of a popular buzzword thrown around in this industry.
So what does real innovation look like and how are we implementing that in pathways
recovery centers so you know the difference i think it's important to point out the
difference between like an inventor and an innovator right is is we're not out
inventing new software we're not out inventing new hardware right like we didn't
invent the wearable biometrics we didn't invent the AI that drives our clinical
documentation platforms and all that. But what we do here at Pathways is we go out
and we find the best things, right? Like we're tied into all the national
conferences. We stay in the know on what's cutting edge and what's coming out. And
we kind of pick through, which we think is the best, which is going to bring the
most value. And we define value as bring the most benefit to the clients that we
serve, right? Ultimately, the outcomes, like we said, we bring those to the
organization and we use them not only in the way that they were branded or marketed
to, but we also think of new ways to use things that are different and are more
beneficial to organization. For example, right? Like we employed the wearable
biometrics. The wearable biometrics do, obviously the typical skin temp,
heart rate, blood pressure,
O2, SAT. They measure the sleep studies. They do running sleep study,
show how much you and REM sleep and all that, which is good, right? But what new
ways can we use that information and that data that we collect right to to provide
better care and in the approach we've taken is that our clinicians use data and the
information gathered there to steer and guide their clinical approach right we use it
dealing with the insurance is to to keep a client in treatment more and treatment
longer so that they're able to benefit from the clinical program and if if we have
a client right that then all of a sudden stops sleeping well at night but the
clinician goes back and says hey hang on i started asking them about their parents
and they started having this trauma type response i needed to look into that little
bit more and we use it that way you know like the AI based clinical documentation
platform all of those programs they market it as you can save money by by not
having as many clinicians because it speeds up the work they do. I said we're not
going to do that. What we're going to do is we're going to bring the AI stuff
here. We're going to use it. It transcribes the message and it helps the clinician
or transcribes the session, helps the clinician write the note, puts all the quotes
in there, it's amazing product, speeds up, it's cut their documentation time by like
70%. So instead of cutting staff, what we've used that to be able to do is instead
of one individual session a week, the clinician is now able to do two individual
sessions a week, which the way that's measured out is that is related to better
outcomes, right? They make more clinical progress while they're in treatment. We're
able to dig into them clinically on what's going on with them. And in the long
run, that yields better outcomes because more people stay sober longer, right? So
it's into things like that, right? Like how are we taking what's on the market,
what cutting edge things, we're bringing it to the organization, and what new ways
can we employ it? And you to yield better outcomes. And for us, we measure success
on a person's ability to find that new life. Yeah.
So I love that I just heard that we tailor into the person,
right? Because not every person is the same. And with all this information and
innovation, we get information about the specific person and we could adjust the
treatment. Just going back to innovation. So I sometimes look up things and people
call me and talk to me about things. And recently someone called me and said that,
you know, they're implementing in that you know when people call in that instead of
talking to a person they're talking to a robot that sounds like a person and
they're like you should do that for your business and like no it won't work because
we need to be engaged with this person right away if we had a robot or an AI do
it chances are by the time they're off the phone they're gone like you know are
some of our admissions people are on the phone with the person until he shows up
at the facility, right? So it's much more high touch. So it really depends on the
innovation and it has to make sense for helping people in our program. I love that.
It can't just be a shiny, new cool thing. It's got to be meaningful, meaningful
innovation. I love that. And kind of the message that I hear from both of you guys
is that instead of, you know, using AI or anything innovative to cut costs,
we're using it to provide better care for people. And that's wonderful. Because I
think that the better care, or I think is my opinion, and this is what I try to
instill on everyone else, is that the better care you have, the better product you
sell, everything will just fall into place. Yes. Everything will fall into place.
Business side takes care the place. And cutting costs and cutting this, when it
doesn't make sense just to cut it, is, is, is, is, is, is, is,
is penny wise and pound foolish. Yes. And that's kind of something that they teach
us in recovery as well is, you know, when we do that next right thing and when
we're in it for the right reasons, somehow everything just falls into place. And for
that to be true in our company as well is such a good value that Pathways has.
And so I wanted to talk about what other visions do we have for pathways as far
as, you know, growth and expansion goes and just our focus on accessibility and long
-term recovery for people.
So that's a good question. Were you hinting anything specific? You're just asking
generally? Just generally. Well, I think we are always looking at new states,
new cities,
where we can be of service, where there's a need. We always are kind of passively
looking like what new opportunity is out there or we can bring the pathways brand
to help people in an underserved area a big focus that has been for 2025 expand at
2026 has been you know i don't believe in keeping our secret our secrets on on how
we do now there's some things that are proprietary they're not going to share right
but as far as like our clinical approach, the amazing things our clinicians are
doing, I don't believe in keeping that a secret so that nobody else can do it. I
think that that's bad for the industry. I think it's bad for the community. I think
it's very selfish, right? So we have, we launched, we partnered with TPN,
the trusted provider network last year to start providing continuing education units
for clinicians. So we have our clinical directors and some of our just rock star
clinicians that have gone through TPN and we provide these these continuing ed units
for the community free of charge right there aren't a ton of places to do that are
a lot of places that they charge or there's a registration or you have to go and
listen to a 45 minute pitch about their program uh to get credit for the CE and
that's just not who we are and we believe in so we pick a topic or something
something that we're doing that's particularly beneficial when we do that. And we're
going to expand that in 2026. And I'm really excited that TPN, the Trusted Provider
Network is starting, they're expanding to start providing CNEs,
so continuing nursing education units, as well as continuing med units for physicians
and PAs and things. And so they've expanded because now they're joint credited, we're
going to start doing that and the benefit with the medical side of things is that
now that they're accredited, those are good nationwide. So we're going to start
recording those and putting those on TPN so they can be available on demand, right?
So sharing some of the power and what makes us special and putting it out there
because my thing is the good operators out there nationwide, the ones that are doing
it right, and it's similar philosophy to us of putting clients first, they're going
to go on and benefit from that. Anybody that's not or nefarious or has bad actions
in mind, they're not going on there to try to improve their product anyway. So it's
only going to help those who are interested in doing better. And so we're really
excited to provide that and share a little bit more on how to improve the quality
of care. And hopefully, conversely, you know, there's some good operators out there
that are doing the same thing that we're able to also, you know, learn from and
grow from. So I'm really excited about that for 2026.
Growth for me is a very high barrier, right? I never like expanding too fast.
I'm always, I'm afraid of expanding too fast that will water down the,
for lack of a better word, the brand, right, and the treatment. So, and spreading
ourselves too thin. So we have, I feel like we have to be on a very solid ground
with what we have and then we'll expand to the next thing. One thing I would like
to do is get some working partnerships with with with companies that could
potentially you know we could help them help people that they're in contact with so
that's expansion that I'm I'm looking at like the employers employers or doctor
whatever it is just just basically to be able to you know to have a wider net
And in terms of expanding the brand, like I said,
we do it like a little bit more methodically. I love that. I have kind of one
last question for you both. What do you wish people understood more about the behind
the scenes work of treatment?
Well, for me, specifically Pathways, I hope that I hope that all our employees,
that the community that we serve, I hope that they tune to this, right? Because,
excuse me, there aren't very many treatment organizations that would do this right
here, open kimono and say, hey, here's our experience, here's what drives us, right?
And I hope more folks
We'll tune into this, we'll listen to this, and my hope is that it opens doors for
us that previously, maybe people are shut off and think that all treatment
organizations are the same, or the treatment doesn't work for them, or maybe there's
a family member tuned in that has nearly given up hope and is able to hear these
stories and say, you know what, we can, you know, we can do this, we can figure
this out and that people see that we're human too. Yeah, right? And we're not,
we're not these folks in an ivory tower somewhere, right? Like we're down here in
the trenches and really shoulder to shoulder with our folks and making it happen
every day. Yeah, good answer.
So the one thing I would say is that I think it's important for any corporation or
corporate staff or people in a higher level to listen and understand and be more
collaborative than more dictatorship wise.
You know, like just saying this is the way it is and you have to do it. You have
to understand the pulse of the people who are actually doing it and the day to
day. And you have to listen and understand what they're saying. And together, you
have to come to a decision. And I've always found that if you, together with the
people working with you, come to a decision, there's much more by it. I love that.
So I know for sure I've appreciated sitting down with the both of you today and
just hearing a little bit more backstory for the both of you. And thank you for
doing this. Thank you for having me out. Thanks for having me out. Absolutely. And
thank you, everybody, for watching. Stay tuned for our next episode. A great day.
Thanks.
